Is this withdrawal?

Submitted by freedom on
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I feel a weird energy lately that seems new. I’ve had my share of withdrawal before so I’m confused. I’m in the thick of withdrawal time-wise, but this feels different. I felt something coming before my last relapse and at that point of roughly a month, I would have had reasonable clarity. It doesn’t feel like anxiety in the sense that it seems more active and heart centered and less withdrawing and gut centered. It waxes and wanes throughout the day and through it all I’m actually quite tired, sleeping more than usual, but perhaps resting less. It’s very difficult to work when I’m dealing with this energy and also difficult to work when tired from it. It seems like a very creative energy that I’m not sure how to process into a usable form. It’s not mind racing, but perhaps body racing to fuel the mindbody’s processes. Exercising helps a bit, but not quite enough. Maybe I need more intense exercise. The energy just does what it wants, when it wants. It seems like my mind is controlling the energy, yet I don’t understand why my mind is inducing this within the body. The energy also feels incomplete or perhaps imbalanced or in the wrong proportions to use it in any real way.

At the moments of high energy, I feel slightly closer to some breakthrough point, but that point eludes me. I can have rather novel ideas even by my standards in which random creative ideas often flow. I’m tempted to follow one of these ideas, but they seem strange in many ways. For example, one was writing a book about which I seem to know nothing other than the title. Many of my ideas are ideas for improving the world and things in it, but these seem to be ideas to create from scratch. The energy seems to want to shape me by shaping my output. Could this be kundalini related?

Has anyone else experienced this? Any tips? Maybe I need to meditate through this energy. I can get into intense concentration and then it almost disappears, but when I come out of the concentration, it can be even worse. I’m also a bit less willing to deal with the issues in my life I’ve tolerated until now.



Is there a creative project you feel drawn to? It's usually a great energy to pour into a project (and a sweetheart...).

Not clearly. Though I

Not clearly. Though I clearly need to find something to put my energy into. When I talk to people lately they feel my passion, but they see it as directed at the topic we're discussing and don't realize it is not until I explain that to them. Then they look at me strangely. Passion and being perplexed don't seem to go well together.

One issue coming up with women is they want me to share their passions which is fine, but they seem to want to do that in a way that stifles me channeling mine for myself. They want my energy, but have to harness it instead of supporting it. Wrong women I guess. Some seem to get what I might need, but have trouble implementing their end.

Often my ideas are quite grand. Though I may start with a great burst of energy, I run out before getting close to the end. That finishing part can be very draining.

Some projects

are joint projects. YBOP wouldn't have happened without both Gary and me, for example. Can you enthuse someone else about one of your grand schemes? You have such a brilliant, creative mind, that I know you are going to do something great if you can get some traction.

Your sense must be right as

Your sense must be right as it seems most who connect with me feel similarly. It's me who is in the way. I sort of support those around me, family, etc. Their projects are helped by me, but that isn't enough for me. I don't feel I have any ownership. I don't want only these projects.

I've encouraged people to get to points in their life I'm not sure they would have gotten to on their own. I'm better at motivating others than myself.

I don't mind joint projects. I freely lend support if someone asks. Usually, they share what they are working on and something pops out of my brain that they latch onto and then they lure me in. It can work, but it also distracts me from my own direction. I suspect I want a mirror pattern where I lure them in. That would align me better with my own drives. That pattern has been rare for me throughout my life in friendship and otherwise. It's very unknown territory for me.


I'd pick you for just about any team. But often you reticent folks actually make the best captains, even though it's not the position you'd choose.

If I'm remembering correctly, 5s are in their power when they behave like 8s. Gary thinks he's a 5, and that's definitely true for him. When he takes command of a classroom, magic can happen...but when he's not given the mantle of leadership, he chooses the "wallpaper" role.

Personally, I like a captain who is not coming from ego, so I love 5s who lead. Give some serious thought to how you could *lead* a project based on one of your amazing (I'm sure) ideas.

Most of my team projects in

Most of my team projects in school went pretty well. I'm the silent leader. Everyone else thinks they're running things, but each turns to me to know what to do next. It's definitely not from ego as it can be exhausting. Occasionally, I've been backstabbed by people because of that style.

I've done other projects where I've done it from start to finish. No one really helped and that doesn't work so well either. It's isolating. I've tried to shed that approach over the years.

I can't think of many groups where I was really in a leader role. Usually someone has an ego and I let them go. Or they are hopeless at getting the work done and I have to step in. I make corrective nudges to keep the system from crashing. I actually lack experience at being the leader. Most introverts probably do. I mostly lead by doing. When people learn about how I navigated the waters, they follow in their own ways. If I went in other directions in my career, I might have gotten more leadership development. Perhaps I need someone to strap me to the project and say this is your baby and we're backing you completely.

Are you suggesting I need groupies? That's a leap when I'm struggling for acquaintances. I have noticed that some women have started to be somewhat enthralled at the projects I might be doing. I guess I've created an illusion or they sense the possible. I'm busy, but it's hardly exciting or useful in any externally validatable way. More importantly, it's not fulfilling for me.

Yeah, groupies

who can get excited by your vision.

The I Ching talks about "leadership through service." And it's true. It's the best possible leadership for the good of everyone. The one who offers the most service ultimately often leads by default...if the egos at the helm can stay out of the way. [bigsmile] Again, Gary and I are examples. It may look like I "lead," because I'm more vocal, but it is the substance he has provided that makes things go. I'm just wise enough to support the effort because I can see its merit. He's quite content, on the other hand, to merely "know for his own satisfaction," and never bother with all the headache of sharing with others. I'm the, " that we know this we *have* to share it. It could HELP people!" team member.

Since your arrival, Freedom, it has been evident that you would be devoting your life to something "outside the box." Make it a point to find your teammates. Don't waste your genius please.

My stashed away genius gnaws

My stashed away genius gnaws at me daily like a kid without a playground. I seek my fellow freaks. I open my mouth and sometimes they leap toward me, but then it falls apart. Or they see an aura and don't even want to get close. Sometimes I sense it and sometimes it is quite explicit in a nutty genius sense. Others either are not committed or want me for their ventures. Sometimes they can try to drag me into their world thinking it is good for me. One person really tried to bring me into her universe. Those efforts are well-intentioned, though perhaps misguided because the best way to support me being me is to help me be me and not think I want to be them. They also have to be willing to be them and not just bring me in without expressing what this all means for them. Smart people can be overly cerebral and tougher to read. I've also seen such people slink away when I can't suddenly shift my life in their direction. That usually tells me a lot about their intentions because if it were purely giving, they would continue to give.

I've pondered if I'm projecting something that is keeping the right people away. I have no clear answer. Life has never been much different for me. I remember how surprised some women (and men) were about things I wrote in their yearbooks as if they suddenly realized they could have gotten to know me all along and didn't. People can act surprised when getting to know me as if they just couldn't see who I was at first. I even see that here as there can be friction with new folks. Distance has always been there. I'm feeling it now even with my closer friends and family so perhaps something is shifting.

Part of the key seems to be to find individuals I desire to be around and know well. That is a rarity for me. Finding a group of such people is almost unfathomable. I'm interested in knowing most people, but not in a magnetic way.


"A chance to use my genius in a long-term project that I find deeply fulfilling, working together harmoniously with a dedicated team that recognizes and appreciates what I have to contribute."


I'm finding that this trip of mine, (exploring an imaginary woman), seems close to what Abraham-Hicks talks about ( I'm creating the woman I need in quite vivid detail and imagining that she's here already. According to the theory she should someday materialize physically. In the meantime, I'm noticing that it is having a very strong and positive effect on my mood (as long as I don't chicken out and get caught up in clinging to past trips that are going away). Do you think that imagining your "dream team", checking in with your feelings to see which particular version of your imagining feels best, adjusting as necessary and then seeing what happens (or just simply enjoying the dream) would help?


Here's a quote from my friend's booklet (he studied and has taught the Enneagram quite extensively). It's about "The Road to Enlightenment" for 5's:

"On the action path, the FIVE:

*dares to do the unreasonable thing
*acts without having all the facts
*takes mistakes as lesser truths
*gets careless about the consequences
*attends to the needs of the body.

The love/action path leads FIVEs out of the tower and into the world. Only in the world can FIVEs reawaken their goal and gift - enacted wisdom."

Does that fit?

What is the equivalent for

What is the equivalent for 4s? How does he define action path?

Some of those could mean many things. It sort of fits, but it didn't lead me into the world. It's interesting it leads to enacted wisdom as older people sometimes tell me I'm just ahead of everyone my age. The quarter life crisis gets old and I'm ready to move on. I have no where I want to go.


[quote=Freedom]How does he define action path?[/quote]

"Only in the world can FIVEs reawaken their goal and their gift - enacted wisdom... Wisdom that is ACTED out rather than THOUGHT OUT requires a radical expenditure of Self. The destiny of profligate FIVEs? To be recognized (literally re-known) as the enfleshment of love."

[quote=Freedom]What is the equivalent for 4s?[/quote]

"The challenge facing FOURs is to find a way out of their own feelings and to make a positive difference in the world outside of themselves.

They must fall in love with some part of life's unworked clay and then labor with all due diligence and humility to transform it.

The goal and gift of the FOUR is envy's opposite - equanimity, harmony, a quality of evenness. FOURs discover these qualities BETWEEN extremes of feeling, in the middle of the holy, humming, now, in moments as ordinary as a blade of grass. ....

FOURs on the enlightenment road will uphold oneness over all else, most especially over separation, classification, and division. Acting on the discovery that all comparisons are false, they stop comparing. "

I'm confused. I'm in both.

I'm confused. I'm in both. They seem to overlap quite a bit too. 4s must find a calling and labor in it. 5s need physically experiential labor to expand their wisdom. Might those be combined in various orders? Then what? It might be easier to start on the 5 path as one doesn't need a passion. The 4 part of myself gets in the way. Do I have to initiate an inner war?


In my understanding, 5s are much less emotional than 4s. 4s live in extremes of emotion (often depression and similarly dark moods). 5s seem emotionless, pedantic. Hence their roads to healing are different in that 5s are to get out of their fear and their heads and confront the world directly. 4s are to refrain from indulging in emotional extremes and come from a place that is more emotionally balanced.

As a 7, the healing road often seems very unattractive to me. It's the last thing I'll entertain and usually only when I'm suffering a great deal. I'd much rather blame others and get angry, change places, jobs, friends, whatever to avoid dealing with the pain I feel. Taking some distance (Detachment) seems almost impossible or a completely invisible solution. The things that convinced me I was a 7 was my smile, the way I related to other 7s, the difficulty I've had staying put in anything (with the exception of Osho, he has stayed with me), my youthfulness, and the way I deny negativity. Once I saw those, then I could start to see the value in the healing direction and the way the addictive direction could manifest itself in my life.

I hope that helps.

I've not been outwardly

I've not been outwardly emotional for a long time. I want to be... almost need to be...but I'm bottled and it doesn't happen. I'm not sure that is really me as I was more emotional as young child before I learned to bottle. Things can a little extreme at times where I can feel a lot of intensity. It can be asymmetrical and easier to feel (or maybe just express) what others see as dark. I don't tend to enjoy much and when I do I'm not always expressive about it. My family sort of knows when I'm in a good mood or enjoy things. Both the 4 and 5 paths are good for me. I've overly withdrawn from the world (5) and I've become overly focused on unleashing my emotional side (4) which is destabilizing the balance I learned to live with. Maybe as you say I need to meet 4s and 5s and then match myself to them.

MBTI and Enneagram might not be designed to work in a superstimulating world where people are so often not themselves.

Wow, your description in

Wow, your description in your post up there is eerie at how similar it is to my own. Ive had very similar experiences, nearly identical and my first thought was kundalini as well.

I noticed this the first time I tried abstinence a few years ago, even before coming to reuniting, while in the thick of my acting out. I tried it a couple of times and after two weeks, I would get this feeling where it felt like I was standing over the edge of a cliff. As mental as this feeling was, there was a bodily feeling of adrenaline and my mind felt like it was conflicted and energized at the same time. It is difficult to explain, but your description is spot on. Also, the creativity comes and goes in spurts. That was the first time I noticed it, but then when I started getting into this and trying abstinence regularly, it would happen nearly every time around the 2-3 week mark and sometimes after that. I remember it was happening one time while I was at school and I identified rage underneath it as I was seething at my professor for sparking an insecurity or something that day. I drove home enraged and had all this energy. Other times, I have felt fear underneath it. Im not sure what it is. It could be some kind of raw emotions surfacing or pushing through a new frontier. I cant say that I hate it, even though its uncomfortable. It is a little excruciating, but since It happens while Im recovering, I consider it a good sign each time. Its changed a little now, It comes and goes less predictably and is a little more flexible. For example, its my 3rd day today and Im feeling some of that. It might be because my emotions are high from dealing with an emotional wall. Maybe this a symptom of dealing with our emotional blockages. Energy goes through and stirs us up in areas that were "locked" by our addiction perhaps.

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.

Yes, I don't really want

Yes, I don't really want this energy gone. It's a little like finding a super fuel. I want to use and understand it while it is here. It feels friendly and warm, but intense and potentially uncontrollable. It's almost like the inverse side of our addiction wheel, as if all polarities are reversed. I've sort of felt this in the past, but I was further into abstinence. This time feels a different as if it undocked from the orgasm cycle.

This emotional wall angle is interesting. I've been pretty open with people lately about myself and maybe that has pushed me into or through some wall. I don't feel as if there is much new I'm integrating. It's mostly confusion and frustration.

I hear you, its like it just

I hear you, its like it just becomes something that is less "locked". It seems like all kind of mental things start shifting around during recovery. This is encouraging to me because things are shifting around in there. I need that.

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.

Do you think we can bring

Do you think we can bring about this state once we are attuned to it? I imagine that if one could call up this shifting machinery at will one could bulldoze walls in a less chaotic way.

I thought I'd feel less connected to people because of where I am in the orgasm cycle, but this energy seems to leave me more connected feeling. I've got to find some more human interaction in this state. This is like the Bermuda Triangle. My compass is useless. Time to dust off the sundial.

Im not sure, but things seem

Im not sure, but things seem to fall into place when we are truly nurturing ourselves. I feel that walls then fall easily, if the walls even had substance to begin with.

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.

I'm trying to comprehend

I'm trying to comprehend that. We have say a minimal need for nurturing. As long as we meet or exceed that nurturing level the walls crumble? Then this altered state is a sign that we've done something to come to the nurturing tipping point?

Could we then sustain this state at all times? I'm not sure I'd have the strength. I presume there is a valley state of high energy rest. That sounds lovely.

I'm guessing that our

I'm guessing that our perceived need for struggle is a concoction of our deprived mind. Its like doing something that you love doing, it's not a struggle, its a labor of love and tends to be effortless. It gets easier once we strip off the garbage that's holding us back, which, abstinence alone is not sufficient to do this, it is just the start. It takes continued application and pressure on "top-line" nurturing and supportive behaviors.

But there is a time at the start when all the forces in our minds will gravitate against this and it might be beneficial to "fake it till we make it" and just go through the motions until they become second nature. Ive been in a rut for a while, but I follow a to-do list religiously because I KNOW that I need to do these things and I KNOW that motivation might not seem natural. Its just a leverage tool. What does that do? It allows for me to fake it until my motivation comes around, and by then Im not completely behind in everything and have to start over again. But I love it when I dont need a list and things fall into place effortlessly, which seems to be the state after a couple of weeks of abstinence.

How many days have you been away from PMO out of curiosity?

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.

I had to do a double take.

[quote=Rockhardington]I'm guessing that our perceived need for struggle is a concoction of our deprived mind.[/quote]

I had to do a double take. Are you suggesting the mind in lacking nurturing creates a struggle and gets in the way? What would be the purpose of such a process? Is it similar to the psychosomatic process which is theorized to be the mind distracting the mind from it's own subconscious pain? The escape from that loop is suggested to be roughly acknowledge the loop exists, confront the mind's process, and confront the pain to the extent it is ascertainable. Are we to view walls as no different than mindbody pain?

Porn's been a while barring some random stuff that's not exactly porn, but might feed the dopamine loop. MO is just a couple of days though I didn't ejaculate. I'm not sure if it is good or bad that my I'm back on the dry orgasm bandwagon. What are you thinking?

Sorry for the delay in my

Sorry for the delay in my response. I am not sure where I heard about this struggle being concocted, but it resonated with me at the time. The struggle is real in the sense that a shadow is real.. but at the same time, it is not. We are so accustomed to focusing on the shadow that it seems real, we are experts at understanding the measurements, predicting its behavior, etc., but we would have a clearer understanding if we focused on our cohesive and real selfs. That means that we focus on the good things that matter and can be controlled rather than the "struggle".

Its an illusion, but a pretty consistent illusion. (Albert Einstein said something like this)

If one way be better than another, that you may be sure is nature's way.

Rather than focus on the

Rather than focus on the tension between the shadow and the other parts of the self, focus on the oneness of those parts? One might analogize to focusing on the physical shadow of the human form cast in a dimly lit alley instead of the cohesive self that at that moment is perfectly safe. Implementing oneness can be challenging.