Submitted by Opy299 on
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Hello

Does the way you guys say of connecting (Non orgasmic sex, and very affectionate nurturing) have a shelf life? Does it just last a little longer than most or does it last?

Thank you,

It relies on

the same hardwired neurochemical program that bonds us to our kids and our parents. This is why it can last in the same way. It's only sexual relationships that tend to decay from the moment they begin. See: http://www.reuniting.info/science/marriage_gets_worse

Today I was composing a list of behaviors that promote attachment. Lovers can use these, too. (Orgasm, or sexual satiation, in contrast, is a recurring signal that "this one is fertilized, or I got his genes, so it's time to add a novel mate to my life.")

· skin-to-skin contact,
· synchronized breathing
· kissing with lips and tongues
· cradling your partner, or holding each other
· listening intently, and restating what you hear
· stroking with desire to comfort
· massaging with desire to comfort
· touching and sucking of nipples
· forgiving or overlooking an error or thoughtless remark, whether past or present
· gazing into each other’s eyes
· doing a favor, or providing a treat without being asked

Anyone have any others?

Opening old wounds

I really liked the theme developing here, because it's always been amazing to me how many of us don't know how to communicate our own wants and needs to another person! I believe the shelf-life of any relationship is based on shared communication... giving and taking being the motion that moves and changes each being. Sexual touch is only ONE form of physical expression. I posted your comment, Marnia, on my own site, knowing how difficult it is for an adult with attachment and trust issues to bond with another, let alone attach words and feelings to different life-experiences. I truly believe there are many adults who want to learn how to re-program their learned conditioning, they simply don't know how to use words (effective communication) as a way and means of sharing thoughts, explaining ideas, and trying new routines. I see unspoken silence as a language-barrier, one that breaks the flow of easy, fun, flowing conversation. [http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/18074].

It'll be interesting to learn how long it will take for someone to suggest the old-fashioned pen-pall routine, (or writing long letters to a friend). After all, what better way can a person learn expressive communication, than sending brief (and building) messages to a person who knows how to read-between-the-lines, perfectly? Wink

Actually, my thought

is that the suggestions in my list are not about communicating with words. They are about behaviors that connect directly with a very primitive part of the brain. Perhaps they don't get filtered through old fears as much as words do...because words require interpretation, subconscious signals don't.

Gary and I were listening to a science program that explained that the parent-infant bond is probably the most rudimentary brain program that distinguishes mammals from reptiles. It's in the limbic, or emotional, center of the brain. Behaviors that signal attachment there may do more to ease fears of closeness than words can.

Remember that NPR program Discordia recommended? A kid suffering from RAD was healed by his parents holding him, talking to him, and looking into his eyes 20 minutes a day. They were consciously recreating that deep parent-child bond, even though he was 12 and taller than his mother. His violence stopped and he now loves his adoptive parents. Powerful stuff.

I think we could use sexual relationships to heal if we could incorporate lots of attachment behaviors...and omit the "move on," or "use the other person" behaviors that accompany the search for orgasm.

please allow me to interrupt

"Healing" for a child with RAD has yet to be determined, as his adult relationships will prove just how "bonded and attached" he was to his replaced parents. [Key word: REPLACED, meaning a bond and attachment had to be REMOVED, first.]

I represent the living truth to the fallacy therapists like to sell to the general public... all because money can be made from a person's misery. [Why do you think porn is so popular... because it represents all things happy in a committed exclusive emotionally-attached relationship? Please!]

Facts, not fiction, make a relationship real. Truth starts with words and actions being consistently repeated over and over until the pathway in the brain has been routed without deviation. This is why people need to think before they speak about putting a hand on another person.

Thanks for your thoughts

The list I proposed above was made for those assumed to be in an intimate relationship - with permission to touch. I'm sorry you chose to misunderstand that.

I agree that the true test will be Daniel's ability to relate to a sexual partner, and, of course, I think his chances of success would be a lot better if he employed the ideas on this site, as orgasm will trigger withdrawal feelings. Have you listened to the program? His story is "Love Is A Battlefield."

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=317

misunderstandings

...are at the root of "safe touch" issues, as anyone who has been abused knows.

Some demons and battles are more in-depth and scope than others, so it's easy to get lost in the frustrating maddness elusive peace and happiness brings.

It simply concerns me how "touch therapy" is going to be used and promoted on adults, when it's been proven fatal on children.
http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/7930

We all have our burdens... I think sharing them, in the name of teaching human history, is the most honest way others can learn from past mistakes. After all, isn't the ultimate goal here in Reuniting to help heal destructive sexual deviations? (Or am I completely mistaken?)

Partly mistaken

The goal of the site is reminding people of the path of karezza (by whatever name) and its power to help partners benefit from fewer cravings, improved health and greater harmony in relationships. Gentle, giving, non-orgasmic union is also a spiritual path. If you haven't read any of the Wisdom section of the site, you may find it inspiring.

Healing from deviations is a side focus that evolved much later than the site itself. However such healing is a great gift to us all, as it sheds light on why regaining balance is so beneficial and how conventional sex with its focus on orgasm is an unsuspected source of heartache.

I wasn't promoting touch "on" adults, but rather "between consenting adults." I thank you for helping me to make that clear.

Is there love every time?

Is there love every time? (Such as every time, every time? or is their going to be times where their isn't as much love as their should be?) Forgive me I must sound so strange asking these questions!

The forum is the right place for questions

In our experience there have been fluctuations...because we do occasionally have an inadvertent orgasm. That's precisely why we are confident that our harmony is greater when we avoid orgasm. We've seen the alternative...and it's painfully reminiscent of our past relationships. Wink

Most of the time we are consistent about avoiding orgasm, and, truly, our attraction to each other is totally reliable during those periods. By that I mean that we always love each other's touch, and we tend to touch a lot, and make love a lot. There's also an easy harmony and generally a lot of teasing humor. We also get a lot done, which we both find very satisfying.

I hate to sound like Saveria, Smile but even the post-orgasmic periods can be enlightening, as they tend to bring up old patterns or lead to solutions we hadn't thought of. We both prefer to keep them to a minimum, however!

a list of behaviors that promote attachment

Hi, I am new here, so this is an attempt to start by adding some suggestion to this thread.
i have found that, doing romantic unpredictable things to work and enhancing the attachment. Mainly what he does not expect because of the predictability that has taken over the relationship....such as call and ask him for lunch, after you have made certain that he has that time available (indirectly). Have a hot bath waiting, with a dinner and music etc. and give him a scrub. Just to break the routine that has settled in the relationship, rattle what is taken for granded of everyday occurance, once a while, without letting him know. Works pretty much like serendipity, to bring a sparkle in the old settling. Unsettles the routine and recreates connectedness.

Lovely ideas

They cater to our "novelty" programming. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize that it's the *daily* generous contact that actually is the glue.