Overdoing it: Semen retention leading to depression

Submitted by Allowing on
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This is an absolutely fascinating and relevant site the more I dwell into it, here goes my problem (perhaps this has been discussed earlier): Over the last couple years I've been trying to cut down masturbating->orgasm because I sense I'm too vulnerable to the dopamine roller-coaster and basically wanna 'save my semen' (yeah, I'm male) for finding me a partner and practise exercising on a higher level. Years ago I would orgasm 2-3 times a week, and now I'm down to once every 7-12 days or so for now. I don't really have the urge to masturbate these days, however I feel after day 4 or 5 a neurochemical 'depression' set it which grows stronger every day, leading to great apathy around day 7. In everyday life it leads to skipping the dishes, the laundry, and common stuff that doesn't include a great chemical reward but 'just needs to be done'. I can look at my messy kitchen on day 14 and think: OK, I need to ejcaulte NOW to fix this, and 'rub it out', and then the next day I actually have the motivation to clean it up! Smile
However I feel I'm trapped in this circle. I read peoples comments that after 7-14 days they are starting to break free from the orgasm-induced motivation for life, and becoming independent of orgasms for a balanced life quality, but I never get that. I've gone as far as 17 days and life was SO BORING and I had food cravings, and little need to socialize (not helping me to find a partner!). So I'm thinking my oxytocin hits the bottom after ~a week triggering growing apathy even with dopamine surges from tasty food, vigorous exercise, etc. I don't understand how some people can gain more energy from abstinence when I lose my creativity, motivation, happiness etc. the longer I go. Socializing with other people, doing positive things for others, etc. help alittle in the process but not enough.

exercise?

Dear Allowing,

Are you getting regular physical exercise? I know people hate being told to exercise in this country, but if you're sitting on the couch, just getting out and running for 20-30 minutes around your neighborhood may help more than you think.

Hi,

Welcome back!

I have enabled you to blog. Instructions here: http://www.reuniting.info/resources/bloggers

Your first post caught me while I was on vacation, and it deserved more attention. Perhaps the eager bloggers here now will have some supportive thoughts:
http://www.reuniting.info/node/1057

You could try more days of abstinence and let us know if you see a difference. Some men definitely do find it's easier to relate to others when they are abstinent for longer.

However, you obviously need to be ready with a plan as you get into your usual doldrums, as that is your challenge. Exercise is a brilliant idea. This oxytocin list may also help: http://www.reuniting.info/node/1461#comment-3908

If you blog everyday during that time, we may be able to help pep you up.

Hugs,
Marnia

Welcome back

I don't think your experience is all that unusual. "Withdrawal" symptoms for some of us can tend to be worse during the second week, not better, and we don't start to improve until 2-3 weeks have passed.

On the other hand, maybe what you're feeling is the weight of loneliness setting in once your altered neurochemistry starts to settle.

Either way, I hope you figure out how you can feel your best, however that may be!

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks for your replies. Yes, I do exercise (30-90 mins daily). I find that extremely soothing and essential for me.

"maybe what you're feeling is the weight of loneliness setting in once your altered neurochemistry starts to settle"

Interesting, I think you're right. Literally the 2-5 days after masturbated orgasm I'm joyful and quite productive despite no relationship. When the high drops I may feel the lack of an 'oxytocin-producing' partnership, and also perhaps my dopamine goes too far during the actual orgasm (I usually explode within 5 minutes - classic!) intensifying the hangover. I could maintain the 'orgasm-induced high' and general productivity in life if I ejaculated every 4th day or so (I never watch porn except when ejaculating), but I don't wanna settle for this lifestyle, it just doesn't feel natural to me anymore, and obvioulsy something's not right since I'm still w/o a partner.
I think I'm ready to go for the 2+ week abstinence although I would have to employ a housekeeper to continually help me clean up my kitchen and a dietist to stop me from binging on carb foods after the 5-7 days of abstinence ..... LOL oh man, no fooling mother nature.... No, this is serious stuff to me (and others I see.)

Have you tried

connecting with women as friends in some way? Is there anything we can do to help here?

I just hate thinking of you two splendid, and much-needed, specimens going to waste. Wink

Have you tried redirecting

Have you tried redirecting the energy of the sexual desire you feel to your heart chakra? It can be hard to break state and think of doing such a thing when the urges arise but I have found it to take the edge of when I do! Only trying to focus on the heart chakra and love energy also helps a bit if redirecting energy sound complicated. I know with myself I have no chance of fighting the lust head on, tai chi's way of utilising the "opponents" energy towards them is more like the approach I feel I have to adopt in this war. So when my opponent gathers lots of energy in a massive attack of sexual desire and lust I try to step gently aside and let this energy flow into the heart. Much like how a matador avoids the horns of a charging bull...

Better and better every time! Wink

Allowing, I can relate. I

Allowing, I can relate. I went 3,5 weeks without an orgasm and I felt horrible! After having a dream orgasm I felt better, temporarily, then the ups and downs started. But somehow it was more bearable than how I felt at 3,5 weeks. I did heat up for a moment in a dream during those 3,5 weeks so who knows, maybe that sent the dopamine crashing.. Don't mean to sound discouraging. This is also something that has frustrated me. I should have written down when my last orgasm was so I could continue the experiment. Forgot when my last one was.

I think meditation, Qigong, connecting with friends and hot baths would help. As would doing something creative. Cuddle with your dog if you have one. :)

Best of luck!

Well it's not black or

Well it's not black or white. There are other factors to our well-being as well. And besides, this was my ONE monitored experiment. I can't make a conclusion from that. What I have for sure noticed though, which is one reason I am here at this forum, is that I feel really bad during (at times) and after orgasm. And the more frequent and intense they are, the worse I feel. But I've noticed a high also that comes after the let down.. but of course it doesn't last and then there are the anxiety and downs as well... And the little experience I have with "karezza", only had that merging without intercourse while cuddling, is beyond amazing so I have still noticed the truth in Marnia's theories. It's just this one thing, the 2-3 weeks hangover thing, that I have yet to see about...

You are right

to make your own experiments. It's great having more explorers. That's the best way to get to the bottom of things.

When I visited the POIS forum I was amazed at how many men were medicating their distress with "another orgasm." I can see how it would seem logical to do that, and how it would offer short-term relief.

I just wonder if, in the long term, such an approach can lead to greater over all anxiety.

This guy's experience was instructive:

Within about ten minutes after orgasm I am cloudy-minded, light-headed, disoriented, and anxious, although the duration and intensity of the different symptoms has varied quite a bit over the years. Orgasm was not only the cause of these problems but also seemed like the CURE. I would have orgasm when feeling affected. Sometimes I would do it twice if the first one didn't work. But after awhile, I found I needed to do it more and more often to relieve the symptoms. Eventually I was up to 5 times a day. This was exhausting, and cutting back had strong withdrawal effects.

I don't claim to know all the different ways the passion cycle can show up in people, with its fluctuating neurochemistry, but I do know that orgasm isn't a simple "outlet" or just a source of good feelings. It's definitely part of a cycle. In our experience it lasts about two weeks.

I also know that some of us experience the most intense "hangover" during week two. This suggests that it may be worth toughing out the anxiety for 2-3 weeks, rather than settling for another cycle just to cope. I notice a radical improvement around the 15-day point. This made me wonder if the rat experiments that showed post-satiation/vigorous intercourse changes that lasted 15 days have something to teach us.

Time will tell, but don't be afraid to experiment with new territory. After all, you can always go back to your current habits!

Hm

[quote=Marnia]
I also know that some of us experience the most intense "hangover" during week two. This suggests that it may be worth toughing out the anxiety for 2-3 weeks, rather than settling for another cycle just to cope. I notice a radical improvement around the 15-day point. This made me wonder if the rat experiments that showed post-satiation/vigorous intercourse changes that lasted 15 days have something to teach us.[/quote]

Does the horniness go away for you after day 15? For me it doesn't. But it comes and goes. I find that I need to pay attention to how I sit etc not to put any pressure down there. I'm easily stimulated. Day 17 for me now.

I will try the not drinking

I will try the not drinking too much before bedtime as I am usually both drinking and eating late at night (I know, bad habit).

I specifically remember having had a dream orgasm sleeping on my side, but thanks for the tip anyway!

Mm. But someone told me today that the dream arousal and dream orgasms are less frequent the longer she goes without masturbating and she is very sensitive too so it brings me hope.

I'm glad that others

are monitoring this issue, too. I think it will turn out that the cure is *union." After all, if there were a satisfactory solo solution, most people wouldn't even keep trying to connect with sweethearts after a nasty break-up or two.

I think we humans are going to have to find harmony again, and these dreams and their fallout are one of the "motivations." Smile After all...we are pair-bonding mammals. This means we're programmed to seek out trusted companionship in a mate. It it's not forthcoming, we're very vulnerable to filling this "hole" with alcohol, drugs and orgasm, orgasm, orgasm! But it may be that no substitute ever totally fills that longing, and that we really do *need* trusted companionship for a fundamental sense of wholeness.

Oh I

so agree with you on this one! With a few exceptions that I have not yet experienced myself. Say had I been meditating for 50 years (or with Holosync for say 5-10 years - but it's such a bumpy intense ride) I think I'd feel pretty whole but then it's pretty much time to go anyway. Wink

Qigong helps a lot, but one need the self-discipline to practice for one hour every single day. Not everyone has that and even then, we'd feel a lot better in a balanced intimate relationship.

Hi Allowing , Here's a

Hi Allowing , Here's a challenge. How about starting to connect with people in your world where you might find a mate at around day 5 and continue until you eventually orgasm and thereby go into retreat for a few days. Also avoiding porn altogether might get you headed in the direction of meeting and being open to actual women. I sense that the apathy you mention may be a combination of what you percieve as the boring women (compared to porn godesses) that you meet in your daily round. And inactivity around risking intimacy with the real deal. Could be scary,but you seem to have the rest of the mechanics of abstinance sorted. The main reason for doing this at all, as I see it, is connection. To love and be loved. to see and be seen. To risk being aware that as Individuals we are not fully engaging our potential.

If your post orgasm awakening At day 4 (When you stop being fulfilled with a reclusive lifestyle because there is too much available energy) leads you to more eye contact and meaningful conversations with women something might shift. I heard that it seems like there's LESS energy and more apathy but my guess is that you are looking at a blocking and subverting thingo here. Mate, real women are gonna be interested in you! It's about forming new habits. So what if you fall on your face out there . we love ya!

Oh dear! this is a kick in the butt post. It's probably gonna be my turn for one someday. Blessings to you. I hope that you make it over the hump into a relationship soon,and are flooded with ecstatic joy. Wink

It's true that

porn can shift men's perception of women...and this is certainly a problem.

But for me (a man lover), the biggest problem with porn is that it leads to the constant over-stimulation (brain chemical changes) that change men's perceptions of themselves, their worlds, and the people in them. And it does it in subtle ways that gradually take the joy out of life and relationships...leaving them only one source of "pleasure." A source that doesn't, in fact, offer the unlimited joy it promises the mammalian brain.

This is true of all addictions, of course, but because this one tampers with something so natural - the attraction between the sexes - it seems the most tragic to me. Intimate relationships, which could offer us so much comfort and wellbeing, can no longer fulfill that function...and all of us lose.

I'm rambling....

Marnia ,I think that you're

Marnia ,I think that you're trying to say something about what I felt but didn't speak about directly. And doing a great job as usual.

We have a behavioral change in order to create a neurochemical pattern change , followed by a resulting perceptual shift and then Further behavioral changes to make ,as the newly percieved reality starts to kick in. And so on and so on.

So for Allowing, if we don't move through this adaptive process we'll get stuck. And boredom is a real cue that there's abundant energy available, that's not in flow. It'll maybe be tied up in something that's deemed inapropriate. Like an old stored anger. Or a self imposed prohibition or maybe the monkey with his fist stuck in a jar of nuts thing.

So a two pronged approach of forcing the issue by doing what appears undoable in order to smoke out the sleeping giant. And ,watching for signs from the unconsious, in order to allow an appropriate staging for the part of one whos' blocking , to enact its role in the light of day. Ought to bring the element of choice into the picture. Free choice ,acted on repetedly, will form a new path and release the stuck energy.

I think that just taking the no orgasm pill won't nessessarily see us through this change .We'll need to do some psychological restructuring as well. Getting reborn into a new world with help and nurturing is one of the really cool things about this site.

If any of this is useful, great , if not ,then throw it back on the fire.

Thanks for the airtime.

Great posts

I'm so depressed these days ha ha :-/! I exercise 1-2 hours outdoors every morning and experience brief uplifting and a 30 mins "afterglow" after I'm done with exercising, but the rest of the day I'm very mellow. Never thought this would be so hard, I'm so depressed that I don't even want to bother ejaculating now!

This may sound like clinical depression, but I know in my own body it's related to the lack of orgasm, and ultimately lack of partnership. The interesting thing though, is the last couple months in my mind I've been more OPEN to the thought of seriously getting involved in a romantic partnership, simply because I CAN*T STAND this emptyness anymore! LOL. Something to ease the pain or I'm going crazy (ier). I know an ejaculation would lead to satisfaction, resetting everything, and then I would settle for the lack of companionship once again, I know this.

" I think that just taking the no orgasm pill won't nessessarily see us through this change .We'll need to do some psychological restructuring as well. "
Absolutely, in my expereinence 15 years of self pleasuring would have to have its consequences.

Thanks for having the courage

to explore the alternative. It's a big step to give up self-sufficiency (and a degree of stagnation) for the discomfort of actually reaching out for a partner.

Even though I sort of "get" the neurochemistry behind the shift, it's still amazing to me that giving up orgasm should, so reliably, push us toward union. Yet look, one way or the other, it seems to work. I wish you weren't finding the process so uncomfortable, but if it leads you to a new plateau, you may feel it was worth it...eventually.

What steps are you taking to connect with others aside from visiting us? Smile Sometimes focusing on a new set of (potentially) rewarding feelings can help improve your mood. "New horizons" and all that.

Thanks Marnia and others

"What steps are you taking to connect with others aside from visiting us? Sometimes focusing on a new set of (potentially) rewarding feelings can help improve your mood. "New horizons" and all that."

Yes. I'm visiting family more than ever these days, sleeping over, which helps with the discomfort a lot. Otherwise I live alone and I'm becoming more AWARE of this fact when abstaining from orgasm, still I selfmedicate too much with food when alone which REALLY annoys me (gaining weight and probably backfiring in overstimulating the brain and blunting any further motivation). It helps to fast, eat small protein meals, and avoid sugar, but sometimes I just 'binge' (2000 calories in one meal), I even had a beer (I never drink alcohol) LOL. Anyone know something to help this? Besides masturbation.... Do I really have to take up smoking Beee
But suddenly I feel lonely, which I didn't pay any emotional or cognitive attention to before. A clear shift. A realization, I guess.

I admire you

It is a big step to realize you want to rejoin the human race, whatever it takes. If it makes you feel better, scientists pretty much agree now that the pathways leading to the reward circuitry (desire for pleasure) in our brains - which all addictions hijack - are there, NOT to get us addicted to things, but to urge us toward the rewards of companionship and ties to others. We in the West just completely lost sight of the importance of those ties to our well-being.

So your brain has been trying to find substitutes for those connections with others. You're seeing yourself that when you spend time with your family, you feel better. I predict that when you start connecting more with your peers, and potential sweethearts, Smile you will find you have fewer cravings for food and alcohol.

Suggestion: Don't wait until you bulk up to get after that! *she said...shoving you off of the high diving board with a grin*

3 weeks

So it's been probably 3 weeks now since my last orgasm/ejaculation and things have stabilized (no crazy food cravings, no need to orgasm to generate motivation for finishing boring tasks) however I'm still missing that oxytocin bliss from close companionship (in the middle of changing jobs though so have alot on my mind) but I read a few things about one should ejaculate every *once in a while* (like once a month or so) to avoid stagnation, and here from from H fisher PhD:

Seminal fluid contains dopamine and norepinephrine, oxytocin and vasopressin, testosterone and estrogen, and FSH and LH. Without an orgasm, said Dr Fisher, men lose the ability to send courtship signals. Said one man, who lost his motivation and self esteem as a result, "I just stopped dating."

So, I'm not fishing for hour-long mastubation but simply release the semen (I can't "return it to my brain" constructively yet) to keep things flowing, also I suspect I am showing bipolar tendency (no diagnose) without having a partner and without orgasms going for a long time. Hm.
No doubt in my experience, avoiding masturbation generates more confidence and wipe out anxiety although things are more "blah" . the experiment continues I guess. One thing I've learned, is it's absolutely essential to socialize (more important than exercise) for general health. Any other singles going for longer than 3 weeks?

RE: 3 weeks

[quote=Allowing]So it's been probably 3 weeks now since my last orgasm/ejaculation and things have stabilized (no crazy food cravings, no need to orgasm to generate motivation for finishing boring tasks) however I'm still missing that oxytocin bliss from close companionship (in the middle of changing jobs though so have alot on my mind)
[/quote]
I have experienced the same from week 3 (I am now at day 32), but I also miss that oxytocin (my gf lives very very far away).
[quote=Allowing]
Without an orgasm, said Dr Fisher, men lose the ability to send courtship signals. Said one man, who lost his motivation and self esteem as a result, "I just stopped dating."
[/quote]
I haven't experienced that, but normally I don't think that I send courtship signals anyway. But I have the impression that the increased magnetism coming from conserving my energy makes me more attractive to women and more prone to socialize, in particular with women, but on a different level than the mere courtship. More at large, I have the impression that people respond to my increased magnetism by being more polite, friendlier, etc. All in all it's a very good feeling.
[quote=Allowing]
No doubt in my experience, avoiding masturbation generates more confidence and wipe out anxiety although things are more "blah" . the experiment continues I guess. One thing I've learned, is it's absolutely essential to socialize (more important than exercise) for general health. Any other singles going for longer than 3 weeks?
[/quote]
Same with me, my confidence is higher and I notice that. And I manage to socialize effortlessly, whilst normally doing so it's effortful for me.

2 months

On several occasions I have been 2 months without any ejaculation or sexual activity, nor any stimulation. I find past day 15 it gets much easier and there is so much invigoration and inner bliss, which increases till about week 5. Then one has to seriously spiritually practice everyday to resist the return of the lust, which comes back with a vengeance. After week 8 or 9 I hit a ceiling and cant continue the chastity, and then a fervent spell of masturbation ensues.

Fs

Thanks for sharing

It's interesting to hear the variations people experience.

My sense is that a partner is the key to stabilizing the energy over the long-haul. Still, there are benefits to be had from seeking some degree of balance while solo...otherwise, with so much sexual stimulation around, one can really get hooked.

Interesting

I think I'm having the same scenario, Nandadevi. I'd assumed that the process would be linear, but instead lust got stronger at a certain point in my celibacy. It's not as irresistable as when I'm in the 2-week withdrawal phase after an orgasm, but it got stronger. I thought maybe I'd done something wrong or that I was more tired and depressed, which led to craving one of my favorite escapes, orgasm. Now, your post tells me it might just be a natural cycle. I plan to ride it out, however, and see what happens. I'm continuing to do all the things that help redirect the energy up and in instead of down and out. While I hope to find a girlfriend, it might be awhile (chronic fatigue limits my social life). If I keep this up, I might get an inadvertent kundalini rise!

Maybe what's happening is that the longer we don't orgasm, even though initially we get out of the passion cycle, energy builds up in the loins creating more lust? I recently thought up a theory of the "big hole/little hole" (no, not those holes, you gutter-minds! ;-)) where, since we're so used to orgasm, the energy naturally wants to go down and out. It's like a big hole, while the pathway in and up is still a small hole. The energy, then, like water, will naturally flow more down the big hole, so the practice is to make the in and up channel bigger. This seems to be a good way to describe what happens in chi kung training in general, not just redirecting sexual energy.

Anyway, maybe if I had a partner, instead of lust, the energy would transform into love and not build up?

These are just the meanderings of a neophyte....

We're all neophytes

Maybe there's some ideal schedule (for each of you) while you're solo. It seems clear that it's not "whenever the urge strikes" though, as that can lead to escalation.

Still, I can't help thinking that the goal here is union, not self-sufficiency.

Me too

I can attest to the struggles at week 5 / week 6 too. It felt like it came out of no where and I too thought I'd let my guard down a little too much. Pretty much the same experience tantra described. Low energy, lust, etc... I plan on riding this out too. I really want to experience what it feels like where there is no more delta FosB in me. And of course, the goal is union so hopefully the days of white knuckling it will reduce over time.

Schedule

There might be such a schedule, but ugh, I will not do it. I have the extra incentive of physical healing that ejaculation and orgasm interefere with, and now that I've found a way to break out of the cycle of desire and masturbation, I won't go back to it. I was VERY tempted a few times, but it's just not worth it.

The goal definitely is union, but until union occurs, my experiment will be to see if I can do the brahmacharya thing, redirect the sexual energy, and then supposedly the lust goes away.

Until then, if there is an ideal schedule, I'm sure my body will naturally make the dream orgasm will hit at the right moment. Hopefully, as I open my channels more and more of the sexual energy goes upward, the period between will get longer and longer or maybe just stop one day.

I did give it a lot of thought, that maybe I should go on some kind of orgasm schedule. A LOT of thought. When thoughts are fueled by lust, they're backed by powerful energy! In the end, though, I'm glad I'm sticking to the brahmacharya. For other people, though, a schedule might be right? Well, I'll leave that to others to experiment with if it feels right to their intuition, but I'd think the masturbation should be of a different quality than how it normally is. At least for men. I've read that it should involve no visual stimuli, either actual visual or mental fantasy, and the man should use it to get in touch with his body, the sensations, not just in the penis but everywhere. I tried this in my pre-Reuniting days, and it wasn't as fun. Maybe it just takes time to change to a new pattern. I also tried many other things, working with the energy brought up by masturbation. Like visualizing pulling the sexual energy, the pleasure sensation, up and in. Supposedly, that draws off some of the energy, so that the ejaculate that is released has less. More is retained. Sometimes I thought it worked, but I was never sure. Many other things I tried, but now I've settled on brahmacharya until I have a goddess to work with.

Thanks for

your courage and your findings. Helen Fisher is an anthropologist who has recently been collaborating with sex researchers. She's a great writer, but I doubt that her "month" prescription is anything more than her considered opinion. Nor do I think there would be one prescription that fits all men at all times in their lives.

So don't believe either of us! Wink Continue to make your own experiments, and observe the effects. And chart your own course. The exciting part is that you see the benefits of being out of the cycle. You also see that loneliness isn't the right answer either.

Just for the record, even *I* don't think avoiding orgasm for its own sake is healthy over the long term for singles - although it can be essential for porn addicts who want to quit to avoid orgasm-with-masturbation for a lengthy period. My site, after all, is about the benefits of *union* (and a way of making love that helps to protect unions and make them more deeply satisfying).

In my experience, even for couples, orgasm occurs now and then one way or the other. Perhaps the body knows when it's beneficial.

As you are finding, socializing is vital for well-being. It decreases depression and anxiety. Just recently, Gary also found a study that said that men with low testosterone (and who tried all different therapies) *all* normalized their testosterone levels when they returned to coital activity.

So my advice to you is to get back in the saddle! A goddess is waiting for you, I guarantee you.

A big hug,
Marnia

nocturnal emission

The other night I had an ejaculation while sleeping, not really orgasmic, but several drops of clear fluid and no dream associated with this. It was 4-5 weeks since my last ejaculation so I'm assuming my semen production have slowed down remarkably. The following day I had a bit more energy with a positive outlook, so I actually welcomed the release.
I read that if you're low in oxytocin, it's "natural" to NOT seek out companionship, and touch (negative self-enhancing cycle), and that would explain why I always felt more social the day after an orgasm or after binge drinking in my teens (alcohol can raise oxytocin), and why I'm experiencing this all-time low pseudo depression now when qutting masturbation (and less interest in me, from my surroundings).
I guess I have to get this oxytocin flowing somehow to wake up the motivation for life, independent of ejaculation! Hardest task ever in my life!

Reach out!

And keep doing it. It seems we may need *daily* or almost daily contact with others for best results. Celibacy is a means to an end (escaping the "wheel" of the dopamine cycle), but it's not an end in itself.

Maybe your body *does* know what you need (in the absence of someone to snuggle), if you leave it on its own schedule.

Thanks for your courage! And on behalf of a lot of lonely women out there...I hope you will find a way to connect with them. Smile Don't get stuck in a *new* rut.

Definitely social contact is

Definitely social contact is essential , had a few days off work and the loneliness is cruel. I masturbated this afternoon (no orgasm) for the 1st time in weeks to stimulate *something*, and while it left me briefly relaxed (the greatest food crave killer I've experienced), I feel like dancing with the devil - coming back for more. This 2nd round I ALMOST ejaculated. Argh. I might have to do a heavy workout with weights or I'll likely "blow it".

Not thinking so much about

Not thinking so much about it at work, but when social contact is absent (when I'm home), I certainly feel the void. Paradoxically if I'm without social contact for a longer time (like a day) my motivation for *seeking* the contact, diminishes. In my teens I would have no problem sitting in front of the computer all day having fun with games/surfing/reading stuff, even looking at a little porn, but now I become a *wreck* if I don't get out and socialize "real time" - preferably beginning from early morning.

Yes that almost

happens to me too on those masturbations with no ejaculation. I come real close and have had some spillage and a even a drop of semen leak. I actually get a bit weak and a headache from those sessions but they disappear much sooner than if I had ejaculated. It is indeed a slippery slope and I find it best to just do the non-e masturbation at most once a week. That's my goal anyway. Good luck.

Just curious

what other activities do you enjoy that would connect you with others? I can't assure you enough that there are *many* women who are waiting to meet someone like you. It's just a matter of finding a way to connect that you both like.

Hiking group? Biking group? Hash House Harriers? Toastmasters? Massage class? Yoga class? Congregations? Think, man!

Hugs,
M

I don't really enjoy much at

I don't really enjoy much at the moment. But I'm optimistic and working on putting myself out there. Especially when I'm *understanding* the power of oxytocin for motivation (seems to be my main problem) , also reading your many links/comments and other peoples posts Smile

The cool thing

about oxytocin is that it builds on itself. That is, the more you produce, the more sensitive you get to it, so it feels better and better.

But you're right that bonding behaviors pretty much have to be *daily* things, or they *don't* build. Gary and I were a bit slow to catch on to this ourselves, but now we've got it, and it makes a big difference. As Sood said, it doesn't take much each day, either.

I figure that oxytocin's effects fade (without the bonding behaviors) so we all leave the nest as we become adolescents. Otherwise we'd sit on mommy's lap forever. Smile

However, we still need connection.We just need it from sweetheart and "tribemates."

today: new thoughts

OK, so today is the first time I *truly* can see my prior masturbation as highly inflammatory for my mind, and I've come to the conclusion that I don't need the masturbation anymore! wow. My life quality still suck at the moment, but just this shift in thoughts instantly generates optimism for the future. What I find VERY interesting is the masturbation (15+ years) was more than "self pleasure" and "orgasm", it actually hijacked my reward system and general self worth and twisted it to make it impossible for me to enter a REAL relationship. Aha.
**Even the last year where I've only ejacluated once a week or so, it's maintained whatever inflammatory plasticity.**
It's mind blowing: I start to see the other sex in a differernt light. And I'm starting to break free......

Update

GODDAMMMMIT! What to DO with all the EXCESS energy?! XXXXD
I've cut masturbation for 10.000.000 years - it seems. No, not really, but I've had wet dreams (nocturnal/night ejaculations) every once in a while, which SEEMS TO ME to have kept me somewhat sane. Abstinence without a partner is torture, going on for 1.5-2 years, for me.
Just the other day, I went to a party -and excuse me the following, but- I had no interest in socializing: my friend thought there was something wrong with me, I just SAT there observing, and finally left without comments. I even had a drunk female company sit on my lap, and I just didn't care! Of course she left. The more I go without ejaculating, the more anti-social I become!
So why do I continue the madness? I kinda like the extreme method: no pleasure until I find someone, but it really is a struggle. And I'm getting used to the extreme drive from semen buildup or whatever: unlimited exercise/cardio potential, less need for sleep, etc.
I wonder if my testerosterone is through the roof, but in a social context I find this paradoxical: I act as if I had a low test level?: I wont bother approaching the female, and just expect them to fall on my lap, and even that is not good enough. wtf.
I do have great connection with older people and children, animals, and find prolonged exposure to nature very beautiful. However: extended periods in isolation and/or in front of the computer is inflammatory for me. Actually sitting down for longer time is VERY BAD for me.

Maybe a drunken female

Maybe a drunken female falling on your lap isn't exactly the type of lady that you're looking for? Stop beating yourself up about it and get out of your typical social circles and find some women you're ACTUALLY interested in. Then you can share your lovely yang energy. Finding a balanced sexual channel for your particular energy may be difficult if you are hanging out with people who may be squandering their life force. If that's not attractive to you, bravo for noticing.

*big hug*

If you're going to sit at the computer, what about a bit of online dating? Sometimes it pays to begin with a meeting of the minds.

Same thing..

Hi, I did a search on Google about how semen retention can lead to depression and arrived here. Now I'm a member. I've been doing this for about 6 years now. I'll abstain for several weeks and then ejaculate. But once in a while I'll hold off for months before ejaculating. Right now I'm on week 10 and life seems so dull and meaningless. A couple of years ago I held off for approx 4 months and I could feel myself slowly going mad. It was a "very" intense experience. One thing this has tauight me is that there has to be something more to life, there's something hidden and having an orgasm just makes you blind to it.

please notice...

...that any time you stop with the self induced medication your inner healing system will bring up unresolved psychological material (= trauma, everybody has it). So: You don't get mad or depressed by not-ejaculating, it means that your underlying mood is already there and just is sedated by your favourite drug (orgasming).

You wanna bring up unresolved psychological material? Just stop doing anything and observe what's happening. (they use this approach in Vipassana Meditation, or Analysis or body oriented therapies...)

Semen retention does not lead to depression or madness, it just shows you how you really feel.
There are easy to learn trauma healing techniques like EFT or TAT out there. Start doing this and after a while you will have the best of both worlds!

Well said

Fleur,

You said what I was thinking, but you put it so much better than I would have. I love Reuniting for that. There's always someone who knows what to say.

P.

Another thought

I think you're right that just giving up orgasm isn't the key to happiness. This site's message is about the power of synergy between male and female. THAT's the target. Too much orgasm can get in the way of that goal...ether by promoting habituation, or by fostering addiction in some.

But the reason for cutting back is just to strengthen yourself so you can connect with others. Your system is trying to signal you that there's more to the picture.

What are you doing to connect with others?

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Online Dating

I've been trying some online dating for a while now and I've met a few wonderful people. At the same time I've joined several spiritual groups where I've learned so much about who I really am. The urge to find a mate has somewhat diminished, and I find myself going online just to connect with those of the opposite sex and find out what's happening inside them. But the desire to have sex isn't really there anymore, it's like I want / need something so much more than that. On some days the dull feeling disappears and is replaced by something very wonderful, complete contentment and a state of non-desire. But this lasts only around 30 minutes to an hour and then it's back to the previous mental state. Something else I've noticed is that I seem to "learn" so much quicker than I did before. Another thing that I've noticed and it sounds very strange, but my intuition is so much better now. I'll be driving listening to the radio and I'll just know what song is going to come on next. Or I'll be thinking of a song and then as soon as I turn on the radio it'll be playing. Or I'll be thinking of a song and then when I go into the local walmart it's playing on the speakers - little things like that. Also being able to tell how others are "feeling" very quickly, it's like I feel it too. I know it sounds "weird".

No, it doesn't sound weird

I think humans have enormous potential they aren't tapping because we all so easily get stuck on the dopamine roller coaster. You're proof. Those are really exciting changes.

What does your intuition say about finding a mate? Now that you're not so needy, I suspect it would be easier than you think once you set a clear intention. Have you asked if anything's blocking you? (Most of us HAD very good reasons for being uneasy about intimacy....) Try the oracle: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/inner_wisdom_oracle

Finding a mate...

Well my intuition is telling me that I need to find a mate that feels much the way I do about the world and life. Like I said before, I have this persistant feeling that life is meaningless and without purpose, dull and mundane. Something tells me that by finding a mate with the same feelings will allow the both of us to be transformed and see things very, very differently. In a way we would "heal" each other.

Healing Each Other

I completely agree. It's one of the miracles of life that two people can heal each other. There can be so much power in a group, whether through mirror neurons or shared experience. :)

Is it possible though, that the only purpose life has is the purpose you give it? Your source might be the teachings of another person, solo introspection or discerning the purpose God has for you, but I think our responsibility as humans is for each of us to find our own purpose in life. What resonates with you? Where do you feel at home? What activity gives you energy? A good (completely non-religious) book on that subject is Wishcraft, which, after 30 years is now available for free here: http://www.wishcraft.com/

I can offer you a hint though. If there's one thing that people have found that consistently added purpose and fulfillment to their lives, it's helping others, which goes back to your point about people being able to heal each other.

P.

Have the book

[quote=Marnia]you're right. There's some synergy that helps point to one's life's work.

I was just reading this old book excerpt (from "Think and Grow Rich") to prepare for an interview, and I thought of you. What do you think about it?

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/mystery_of_sex_transmutation[/quote]

I have the book and I've read the section on "sex transmutation". I actually bought the book a year ago simply because it discussed this topic. I believe all of it and I know I've felt a lot of what's described. You start to feel this huge drive after a couple of weeks and you're filled with energy. But's there's another side to it which you begin to experience after about a month or so and it stays with you. Synchronicities are everywhere and you start becoming very aware of them. For me, I started to question everything I was taught about the World, religion, values, morals etc. I've always questioned everything I've been taught, but no where near to this extent. The energy you save can be used to be more productive and successful in the material world, but based on my experience it provides a gateway into the spiritual realm as well. I've also started to see women very differently.... Before I'd see women only on the periphery but now I understand the healing potential they have, that everyone has. If only we could all tap into it easily... If I ever think of a woman in an intimate way it's always about embracing and holding, it's not sexual like it used to be. It has an inner connection quality to it.

Very interesting

Now you know how I feel about men. Wink You guys are JUST GORGEOUS when you start to glow...and display your many talents. And, trust me, you're all sexier than ever when that power is exercised with balance and integrity.

both is important

I'd say the trauma healing AND the being with somebody (without orgasm!) is important. But what do you do if you can't find a mate...? and maybe you don't find a mate because of your unhealed material.
Doing healing in a group would combine the approaches. Being with people in such a honest way is surely oxytocin - and it is supporting each other, too (selfless service), and you hopefully heal a lot of trauma with the right techniques, what makes you even more wanting to help others.
If one is lucky and finds a mate and does karezza: great. And maybe this heals all the trauma.

To my experience connecting with people usually starts all by itself after some real healing is done. And wanting to serve the world starts, and feeling a part of it all etc. The one calls for the other.

Well said

I agree that therapy can help. I just wish more therapists understood the value of increasing the equilibrium of the reward circuitry naturally. Many of the psychotropic drugs used today for emotional imbalances (depression, bi-polar, etc.) are hammers that interfere with this part of the brain...and produce side effects. But few experts emphasize the natural ways we have of altering our balance.

medications...

I don't like them and it feels very bad to me if they are used. It just does not help, it only hides the problem and makes the people sick with side-effects. Natural ways of altering our balance are not very much popular - and therapists would support and try to help the people to have "a healthy sex-life" without even imagining how harmful their (orgasming) advices will be.

I agree about medication

A psychiatrist I know made the point that we don't have enough history with a lot of the more recent drugs to know what the long term effects are. He pointed out that a clinical trial can be for as little as six months, but with psychiatric medication, the patient may be on them for easily 6 years.

A bipolar friend described to me what the drugs do to her. For many people, the drugs are as bad or worse as the condition being treated.

As far as I am concerned, therapy is a must. Unfortunately, the wrong therapist can also do more harm than good. You have to find one who truly works for you, even if you end up seeing five or more of them in the search. My rule of thumb about any professional, counselor or teacher is that you should feel a positive difference after the FIRST session. In other words, they should see SOMETHING about you that they can help with right away, even if it isn't the main problem.

P.

Semen Retention and Porn

I've just realized something, and I think that it's important to share since it may help to validate a lot of material out there and in books. I have been living this way of life (semen retention, not being wasteful etc.) for approx. 6 years now. I don't have any desire whatsoever to look at porn. If a porn image appears on my screen while navigating the Internet, it just seems so unreal and transparent to me. A part of me can feel the negativity in it (perhaps the negative part is the way women are treated in porn). It never really occurred to me how I now feel about porn since it has been a gradual change over the last 6 years. Prior to that I watched porn everyday and masturbated several times each day. It was not unusual for me to ejaculate 5 - 6 times a day or even 4 - 5 times in a single hour (before bedtime... zzzz). I never thought of myself as a "porn addict", it just became a way of life for me. Women just all seemed like "objects" to me, I only saw them in a sexual light and no other. I never asked myself, "I wonder what she's thinking" or "I wonder what she's feeling". I think ejaculating so much just made me so "insensitive".... Now things are SO different, other people matter and their feelings matter. I see women so differently now. I think that by conserving my energy and romoving the grip that porn had on me has allowed me to embrace my feminine side and be more understanding towards others. I firmly believe that I'm a better human being. Before if I saw an attractive woman the thoughts that would race through my head were all from watching porn. It's like porn had "conditioned" me to see women a certain way. Now all women seem attractive to me, I can see the beauty in all of them and honestly, I see that beauty in men too. I don't dream of doing a girl doggystyle and then ejaculating on her face like they do in porn. I have this desire to "melt" with the "right" woman and find something eternal and divine.

By accident...

[quote=Marnia]whenyou were first changing your habits? What inspired you to make the change?[/quote]

It was something that I stumbled upon. I was desperately seeking work and I just didn't have "time" to pleasure myself. I was so pre-occupied and stressed that I just "forgot" for 2 days. Then I noticed something strange, there was this "clarity of thought" that was not there before. I also noticed that I was much more physically "sensitive"... So I started to play a little game with myself, I would "save up" for a week and then have a bit of fun, save up again etc. But eventually I realized something important was happening to me, so I just gave it up for 2 weeks, then 3 weeks, 1 month, etc. Then things started to get really strange, all the things I wanted started to happen to me.... A house came along, a car, my dream job, I lost 35 pounds and got into amazing shape, I learned a musical instrument etc. all within a very short period of time. Then the intuition started to improve etc. So I started to read up on it on the Internet to see if others knew what I had discovered... That got me into all things spiritual. PC exercises have REALLY helped prevent accidents. I highly recommend them.

There's nothing like

trying things for yourself to find things out. Wish more people would try it...just out of curiosity. Then there's no guilt or repression...just experimentation and plotting your own course.

Fascinating story. We have so much untapped potential because of our current habits.

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