Wow...

Submitted by Conflict on
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Well, I don't know where to start. I've been looking at this site for a while now and the things I've read on it has helped give me some temporary piece of mind from time-to-time. Especially the article on shock and guilt and how it relates to arousal. I've posted on so many different forums already. Ones ranging from HOCD, to porn addiction, to "coming out" to gay ones seeking some help.

I'm 26 years old and have been using porn since my early teens. I've always felt romantic/emotional/sexual attraction for women, but I've also had gay fantasies as well and when I got the computer, I began looking at gay and bi porn. About two years ago, I had an anonymous encounter with another male...quick oral sex, nothing more. Still didn't obsess or worry. I still felt straight. Then some time later, I started to freak out and for the past year my life has been nothing but depression, anxiety, worry and it feels as if I've lost my identity...my attraction for women is constantly put to the test.

After all I've read, it seems as if my problem is rooted in porn and obsession with sexual behavior, not orientation. But I am 26 and only had vaginal intercourse with two girls in my entire life and I've been accused of being gay and have been questioned often.

I know I have a problem with porn, because I could spend a whole day with it and in chat rooms. Trying to stop is damn near impossible.

This is just the tip of the ice burg....there is so much more.

Even though I don't want to be gay or bisexual and hold onto the idea I am straight, I struggle with the temptation of acting out again...totally anonymously and secretive. It's as if I am under a spell when I think of it . I also think it has more to do with me wanting answers now.

But I still don't bring myself to do it.

Did you read

this article about obsessing over gender orientation? It may be that the problem is the *obsession* itself, and that you would find it more soothing to live with ambiguity for a while...at least for as long as it takes to get back in balance. http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson7.php

I have had straight men tell me that using porn led to trying homosexual sex. After all, one thrill leads to a need to find something even more thrilling the next time...the brain being what it is. There is science behind this. People who took a dopamine-like medication found they either temporarily acted out homosexually, wanted to cross-dress, or demanded anal sex. Supposedly, there's even a saying in the gay community "the difference between a gay guy and a straight guy is a six-pack of beer." In other words, too much dopamine can get you guys chasing just about anything...like these fruit flies: http://www.reuniting.info/science/courting_both_ways_dopamine_sexual_ori...

How can we help you kick the porn habit? Because I honestly don't think you can take a clear reading on your sexual orientation until that has settled down.

Anyway, welcome to the site. I've enabled you to blog if you like!
http://www.reuniting.info/resources/bloggers

Thank you for the reply. I

Thank you for the reply.

I post on an HOCD forum all the time. The difference between me and many of those other suffers, is that my obsession and worry isn't irrational and seemingly rooted out of "nothing".

I started like most heterosexuals. I had some Penthouse trading card or whatever and saw a porn video my friend's father had. I had interest in women and had nothing that would indicate a gay/bisexual orientation. Until, around 14/15...when I started using pot smoking and porn to escape reality. Then thoughts of homosexual sex came into the picture. Early on, the men were faceless and...well, I don't have to go deep into it.

I will say that they didn't start until AFTER I started being accused of being gay (I liked Marilyn Manson, goth stuff..dressed crazy and was shy with girl). I was kind of feminine then, mostly out of striving for perfection and cause I had insecurity. I trimmed my eyebrows, always shaved. But I always felt I was straight due to romantic interest in girls and wishing I could be a stud among them.

I think It made me feel gay, so I was acting it out in fantasy and it just became the norm.

It's hard to explain.

Even if you feel there's some basis

it might be wise to just live with the ambiguity for a bit and see how you feel when you get off the porn. Straight or gay, it isn't helping you think clearly. Trust me on that! Find out what equilibrium feels like.

Any chance you could set a goal of say, four days with no masturbation and no looking at porn at all, and see how you feel after that? Turns out it's easier if you have picked out an activity to turn your attention to *every* time you have The Urge to look.

Also, can you find a way to connect more with others? Those two things help a lot.

More About intimacy

Sex and sexual desire is more about intimacy. Maybe your draw to men is more of a desire to have a fullfilling intimate nonsexual relationship with men that is authentic and not just talking about sports or other surface stuff. Also, it could be that you feel insecure about your masculinity and feel that you need to be affirmed by another man. Explore you relationship with your father!!

Thanks again...

[quote=aslanson]Sex and sexual desire is more about intimacy. Maybe your draw to men is more of a desire to have a fullfilling intimate nonsexual relationship with men that is authentic and not just talking about sports or other surface stuff. Also, it could be that you feel insecure about your masculinity and feel that you need to be affirmed by another man. Explore you relationship with your father!![/quote]

I have no real male friends anymore and I hate sports! Insecure about my masculinity? Yes. When I read that woman subconsciously seek out the "hunter gatherer", I don't "Cave man" for lack of a better term, I feel like crap. 26 and I often get mistaken for 15. I'm not a very big guy. I also still have father issues, even though I still live with him and deal with him on a regular basis. I remember hating him when I was young and I think my behavior back then was due to my wanting to be opposite of him.

I do believe the above can have a link, but I also have trapped in my head the words of the gay community that is against such belief. Who believe it's all innate and has nothing to do with such things.

[quote=Asher]I am however all for you examining and reflecting on that connection between the 'zone' that you enter when 'doing' porn[/quote]

The "zone" (what I call it), I've come to notice is the only thing that totally takes my mind off other areas of life. All my life I've loved music, movies and fantasy of a nonsexual sort. But as much as I loved them, they never really did the trick of supplying total ecaspism. Well, they have...but since I've had obsessive fear of having a false identity and being really gay or bisexual, I don't even bother with them anymore. My mind tells me the only reason I liked any of it was because of sublimation. The zone is really like stepping into another world. At it's most intense, when it's over with orgasm, it's like I left reality and actually have to remind myself of things. It's pretty damn strong. But lately, I don't get that much. Lately it's just with a lot of anxiety, worry, analyzing, feeling of regret.[/quote]

[quote=Asher]I don't look at images I like or respect, but images that my primitive brain likes.[/quote]

This is interesting. One type of P I've liked for a while, is "gang bang" and what's most messed up is that when I've watched it, I often pictured my current GF in it and recently my last ex-GF. It's disturbing, yet intensely arousing. In reality, I think I would of lost my mind mentally had I ever witnessed or found out she did something like this, yet...I got off on it.

I used to watch videos of women doing things to guys with "strap-on's", yet in reality if it came down to it, I couldn't picture myself actually doing that. Also lately, I find myself having a duel mindset when viewing P. One side of my mind tells me to just do it, another side is telling me that I am going to regret it lately. This is what makes it hard for me....gay and bisexual guys will tell me that's repression and denial and societies grip on me and blah, blah...but is it? Or is it my primitive brain.

Also, what the primitive brain find arousing...isn't it indication of something that's related to who we are? Why cross dressers, transvestites, bisexual threesomes?

[quote=Asher]Be curious and explore life. There is nothing wrong with you.[/quote]

That sounds great, but I did explore it once in real life and it triggered a break down and identity crisis. I still get an almost anxiety-driven desire to "experiment" again, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I have a gut feeling it will only add to my problems.

Truth is I don't want to be gay or bisexual. But on the other hand, if I WAS and really KNEW it for a fact...I wouldn't mind. But I just can't bring myself to face it...if I am that is.

Correction :-)

That last comment was not Asher's. It was one of several posts by a visitor who was triggered by the material on the site and made a few such postings based on her current beliefs about the world.

You will have to make up your own mind about a lot of things, Conflict, but I would say that a very important one is whether regaining your self-control is "repression" or just giving up a risky, high-dopamine "altered state" that is distorting your judgment and determining false priorities for you. Many people on the planet want to believe the "repression" line of thought, because it justifies addictive behavior (just a many alcoholics think they can quit and are just drinking socially). In the case of gay men (in particular), this addictive behavior is such a common part of "the gay lifestyle" that it is hidden under the "gay umbrella." In other words, it is defended on the basis that it is "homosexual." I'm beginning to think, however, that it shouldn't be.

That is, "gay is gay," and "sex addiction is sex addiction," and the two should be separated in everyone's mind...most of all the men's minds. I have a friend who goes to 12-Step sex addiction groups in NYC (he, too, has had homosexual sex, although he regards himself as straight), and he reports that most of the group is gay men. These guys are getting hit the worst by out-of-control orgasm/masturbation addiction. To my mind, it's dangerous to keep that a secret , while everyone (straight and gay) pretends to ignore it "because it's gay." Some facts need to be out there, so people can make more informed choices. (And there may be other useful facts, too. I remember that it made a big impression on me when a gay friend told me he had talked to gay men whose bowels were incontinent as a result of too much anal sex/masturbation. That was a hazard I had never considered....)

If you doubt that the addictive "zone" (and not especially 'sexual preference)' is at work in gay men's lives (and the lives of straight men, too!!), read this article by a gay man on "bathroom sex." http://www.reuniting.info/bathroom_sex_brainchemistry

Finally, your experience that the highs are less thrilling, and that increased anxiety has superseded them, is *typical* of all addicts. Soon they are just "self-medicating" (in your case masturbating to porn) just to ease the withdrawal symptoms...briefly. This is a downward spiral, and has *nothing* to do with sexual preference.

Good luck plotting your course. I know it's tough. It seems to me that *only* by regaining your balance will you be able to make a clear choice about what brings you greatest well-being. Until then, thinking about it constantly will just increase your anxiety.

Why not get clear for about 6 weeks? You can *always* return to your current habits later, if we're wrong about balance leading to greater well-being.

Whoa I just saw that too...

Yes, as Marnia says above, I didn't make that last quote about 'exploring life' and would not have, considering the context it was placed in! (However in a totally different context that quote would not be so bad. And yes, there IS nothing wrong with you...it's actually important to feel that. Anyway. :) .)

'Accusation'

It is sad that people would be 'accusing' someone of being gay, as though it were some kind of crime. Unless you live in some kind of fundamentalist State, it is not.

I am however all for you examining and reflecting on that connection between the 'zone' that you enter when 'doing' porn, and homosexual fantasy. I have experienced it myself sometimes. Occasionally I have had a look at gay porn because it is novel, different and frankly, shocking to me, and therefore interesting. And I am a straight guy! And another point: I had a period of sexual confusion in my early twenties when I found myself secretly attracted to effeminate looking men. This passed, but once again a great part of the allure was the fact that I saw it as 'forbidden'!! And the (straight) porn that I look at has to shock me too or it doesn't give me the 'kick' I am looking for...sad but true. I don't look at images I like or respect, but images that my primitive brain likes. (In real life I am respectful towards women, but my 'online addicted self' seeks out images of degradation. Also despite my using the present tense ie 'I use', I am hoping that today proves to be an exception to the last few days of struggle...ie I so much want to stop using!).

Anyway, welcome and I hope you can find some assistance here. Knowledge is power by the way, so I would encourage you to read up on the dopamine-primitive brain connection as it is explained on this site. It helps to know what is going on!

Asher

Asher

Thanks for sharing your experience. Frankly, I think it's very helpful for everyone to be able to see the progression of the porn process. Reading those excerpts from Doidge's book, and hearing the experience of you guys, is making it abundantly clear that this is a brain-training phenomenon. Like any other addiction. The silly primitive brain automatically escalates addictions because of that problem with dopamine creating ups, downs, and changes in sensitivity.

It sucks. But it's not YOU. Even if you are the only one who can make the decision to turn it around.

*big hug*

I have

Tried to stop with the P and MB. Each damn time, the desire comes back strong and I find I binge on it more...even contemplate actually having an anonymous encounter. I'd love to be normal with a romantic relationship with a female, free of all guilt and worry. How do I do this when I question if I am even attracted to women anymore? I feel like a curse has been placed on me. Often, I will lay off it a day then go back to it innocently (P that is) to "see" if/how I am aroused....then it just happens and again and the thoughts flow.

At the same time, I know if I was with a woman here who was interested in me, I'd think differently. Last march I got an erection from my ex-GF spontaneously kissing me for the first time.

I don't think I went more than a week without MB and it's always been compulsive, sometimes more than 6 times a day. It all got worse when I got the internet.

I am afraid since I've been in states of arousal due to gay P and all let's say "non-straight" things, it's now forever apart of my arousal template and I will also be seduced by the "cues" or "triggers"...thus making me gay/bisexual.

What if...

..you are really simply genuinely bisexual? Perhaps you can enjoy both male and female company with the same intensity.

On a more practical side, it may be that it's just a matter of Pavovlian response independent from the content itself. I noticed that in myself when I istantaneously get aroused by simply thinking about a particular sex act - which was represented in the very first porn scene I saw in my life, when I was 7. Other acts don't elicit the same response.

I mean, maybe you feel aroused by gay porn NOT because it's "gay porn", but because you formed a habit of getting aroused by that, reinforced by extreme experiences such as smoking pot and such.

I never smoked pot when

I never smoked pot when looking at gay porn. Except for just some suggestive pics in the back of straight mags which served as a basis.

I don't believe I am bisexual. I can't take the complexity and unbalance of it.

My problem isn't an issue of finding men attractive, it's all about homosexual sexual behavior. This is why I hang onto the idea it's rooted in porn and other problems. In early childhood, there are no indications of an orientation other than heterosexual and I never felt romantic attraction to males.

Bisexuality seems like a curse to me. What if I entered a relationship with a guy? I would feel constant worry over if it was what I really wanted and vise versa with a woman.

I just see to much in woman and feel too much for them to "also" find men attractive as well.

I want to be full and well rounded.

Also a bisexual man would have to limit his choices of women to women who are open and accepting of it. That I don't like.

But these turn-on's and acting out has created guilt in my heterosexuality and has hindered it. Which makes me feel insecure and the fantasies of being watched or encouraged by a woman is a turn on, cause it brings out my heterosexual desire.....I don't feel like less of a man or hated or disliked in the eyes of a female, but rather giving her pleasure through the acts.

But still, I believe I am straight and this is all psychological. I believe if I had different life experiences, made different choices and had a different upbringing, my "arousal" template would be different.

Thus I do not believe it is an innate desire or expression of my core identity.

I look for trouble when I seek out answers. Cause the web is full of info and different opinions and paths, beliefs and such...that anything is possible.

I'm dragged in many directions..

I could just be a sex and porn addict.....

I could be a straight man who's sexualized contact with other men?

I could be a repressed homosexual

I could be bisexual

Gays/lesbians and bi's largely believe it is innate and unchangeable...while others disagree.

Some say there is a different between sexual behavior and fantasies and orientation.

Millions of different answers to the same question from a million different sides and various complex factors.

The loss of self-control

is a part of this addiction, as I am experiencing myself. Try having some compassion for yourself, at least you have admitted that you have a problem with it, and that you have the wholesome desire to give it up. Take heart from this. Imagine being comfortable with it, just letting it spiral more and more out of control. That would be far worse. You are now headed in a good direction: out of the addiction.

Keep going, C.

Right

The return of that compulsion is due to the discomfort of the withdrawal. Once you understand that, you may be able to watch the process with more detachment.

In other words, your libido, or attraction to material, isn't actually getting stronger...it's the withdrawal that's setting up stronger and stronger *cravings.* Maybe don't draw conclusions about your inclinations until you get back to equilibrium. And you might not want to use "testing yourself" as a reason to look at porn again in the meanwhile.;-)

Have either of you recommended the steps suggested in this post? They may actually work. Wink

http://www.reuniting.info/node/1561#comment-5597

Even...

[quote=Marnia]The return of that compulsion is due to the discomfort of the withdrawal. Once you understand that, you may be able to watch the process with more detachment.[/quote]

After only a day though? A few hours even? It really feels as if I have a physical addiction, cause I can't keep my hands off "it". It's totally psychological because usually I think, men are aroused first and then they MB. With me, there are times where I am not physically aroused, but I just act out with the P, browsing ads for anonymous sexual encounters, sex chat rooms and MB.

Without it, I feel very "antsy" and after I do it, I always uninstall the instant messenger program, delete all cookies and temp internet files in an attempt to stop. I've even went as far as purposely getting banned from many chat rooms. Tonight, I even took my webcam and smashed it to pieces. When I do this, the anxiety often gets worse, my life feels empty....I feel asexual without it. It's my only sexual "outlet".

All kinds of things trigger it. In recent months the fear of being gay, the anxiety that I might not be heterosexual, the guilt of having engaged in homosexual behavior once in "real life" and online...is causing me to act out and explore it more. I don't like this reality, but I keep acting out and some days I feel confident I'm heterosexual, but just have been living in a porn haze. Other days, I feel sick to my stomach and feel as if I began somebody else...fear that I am going to eventually "come out".

I'd like to know if gay men actually mourn the loss of what they thought was a heterosexual self?

It feels like a nightmare that I am even typing this. I feel totally disembodied. Everything sucks and is unpleasant now. Seeing a good looking guy on TV can set me off for hours in a nervous and anxiety-stricken state. "am I attracted to him?", "Why am I think about him?"..."Why did I look at him more than the female?" It's total insanity.

[quote=Marnia]Have either of you recommended the steps suggested in this post? They may actually work. Wink

http://www.reuniting.info/node/1561#comment-5597[/quote]

THIS is an inspiring post. Each and every work he typed, are my exact hopes to a T. Appreciating other areas of life, improved self image, confidence in approaching woman...the FORGETTING of porn images. I don't know if that's even possible. I still can recall images I've seen in magazines when I was 15 and haven't seen in many years.

Ouch!

First, I can assure you that immediate uneasiness IS part of a physical addiction. That's what we've all been trying to explain. You *have* a physical addiction. Just like a gambler. You don't need a *substance* to have an addiction. All you need is a very over-stimulated pathway in your brain.

The uneasiness is immediate because dopamine drops right after orgasm. Right now you are correct: you are *not* masturbating because you're turned on *first,* or even for *pleasure.* You're masturbating to self-medicate. Just like an alcoholic "fixes" the shakes with another drink. Your dopamine is so low from constant stimulation that it is messing with your mood (depression, despair, low self-esteem, anti-social feelings). Orgasm briefly raises it again, allowing you to feel *normal* for a short while. Just like another shot of alcohol raises the alcoholic's dopamine. (The period of feeling "normal" gets shorter and shorter over time, because your dopamine is getting lower and lower. All this is explained in that material I sent you.;-) )

So everything you're experiencing is normal. NORMAL. YOU ARE NORMAL. You are just addicted. Can you go to a 12-step group for sex addiction? Having friends you can talk to about all of this, friends who have been through it and are recovering themselves, will be *very comforting.* Most people can't solve strong addictions by themselves because what is really missing in their lives is *trusted companionship.* That's what's causing the "hole" that they are trying to fill with the good feelings of the drug or activity. Get the friends in a 12-Step meeting, and you're halfway recovered!

You are not a hopeless case, but you need to get more help than we can give you here (although you are welcome to keep posting!). You need a sponsor, too, whom you can call whenever you want to act out. That will help you get through the worst of it (the beginning). Once you turn the corner, you'll be impressed with your faster progress.

I think you will end up a stronger, better person because of this challenge, Conflict. But be kind to yourself. Get the support you need. Please. You deserve it!

PS Nice job on the webcam! Wink

I'm..

Going to try my best to stop. No matter how much it feels like torture at first.

I'm stressed and nervous over the fact I can't get aroused by thinking of, uh...let's say "just a woman". I can, but it requires a lot of concentration and is accompanied by a struggle to block out a lot of "other stuff". I fear this means I might be gay/bisexual and only fully noticing it now. However, I think it's just due to all the other things, the porn and all. It also has to do with the fact I'm always "drained" so to speak.

The thoughts are intrusive and very aggressive. As if my mind is trying to speed up the arousal.

Now, I don't buy that I am just not accepting the fact I am not heterosexual. If being hetero and desiring sex and romance with a female is something I didn't want, why would I feel so stressed over it and want it?

I have all kinds of questions. Was my sexual response to women in the past just a physical reaction to stimuli? I doubt it. When I've told a gay men that I got an erection just from a passionate kiss with from a girl, they told me they wouldn't respond in such a way at all or they just "didn't know". Of course, it's a well known fact that many gays were once heterosexually married and were sexual with their wives.

But the hump I can't get over is the fact I have been aroused by gay porn, cyber sex and even thoughts of acting it out...as well as some strange turn-on's involving women. Where is the root of this? I guess trying to figure that out is a waste of time. I don't think it has to do with orientation as much as it's sexualized coping mechanisms of some internal struggles. Trauma and hurt turned orgasm?

I remember when I was younger, seeing a lot of horror movies that scared the living crap out of me. My way of coping, was to side with the villain and not the victim. Soon after I became rooting on the monster, they became less scary. I think early on when I was made fun of and had my masculinity mocked and my sexuality put to the question, I began to turn that anger and stress into pleasure. Early fantasies involved women encouraging me or forcing me to take part in homosexual sex while she watched. That is clearly sexualized trauma. "Erotic intelligence" as it's call...and I think early intense arousal as imprinted this into my "arousal template" or whatever. Of course the "dark" side of it, the kinkiness, the forbidden, something different and transgressive...made it intensely arousing, to the point where it has tricked me into thinking it must mean something else.

A lot of people would say, mostly gays and bi's "well, that just means you're repressed and feel less gay with a woman involved", or simply that I enjoy bisexual sex cause I am...but I don't think so.

But under the surface? I believe I am innately heterosexual.

I wish I did not have to rush off

but I want to offer something for now. Conflict, it is a long and 'tough' road but there ARE islands of joy along the way. Importantly, I will tell you that it is NOT enough to simply 'not' do one thing (ie, acting out) without 'doing' something positive in its place (ie, some other activity that you both like and that will make you feel good). That 'wholesome' activity can be anything, a new sport or art or whatever, and it doesn't have to be nice, I mean you could go shooting targets, the thing is to DO something else rather than just STOP doing porn etc. More later, but my best wishes for you.

What about the idea

of not worrying about your sexual orientation for a bit, and just focusing on *not using*, with the help of others? I fear your mammalian (primitive) brain has tricked you into dwelling on an issue that increases your anxiety...just to keep you using porn/masturbating. Since it's an issue that you won't allow yourself to resolve, you never seem to get to the next step...recovery. This means you are extending your torment with each day. That is not a kind thing to do to yourself.

Call ANY 12-step number, and someone will hook you up with a recovery group. At least go to a meeting and try it. Spinning around doesn't seem to be getting you anywhere, dear Conflict.

*big hug*

I think..

I was getting better. I was feeling like my old self. I basically got lost in some stuff I needed to to (clean room, organize and things like that). Also, the other I saw images of a female online and got aroused. It was very spontaneous and it felt great. I was using Porn and MB on and off last couple of days, but it's becoming less and less compulsively.

However, I'm sinking back. I looked at some transsexual porn after looking at a lot of straight and lesbian stuff and now I feel depleted and my equilibrium is all out of whack. Feeling very low. Now the worrying about my orientation is coming back. When this happens, I start re-reading things about sexual orientation and such and that's when I really get a black cloud over me. When I stay away from the research and search for answers, the better I get. What's odd is that I did notice a change in my mood and physical being and mental messed up from what I did, yet I did it again. Same thing I sworn not to do and was feeling bad about five minutes before. I believe this was talked about on this site.

I feel good when I get am on the idea that all of this is due to porn use and the addition. But once I start feeling guilt and worrying if it's an expression of orientation, I panic.

But I think I am on the road to getting better. My old hetero self is coming back lately

Self-awareness

is the key to all positive change. Sounds like you're learning what triggers you, and what improves your balance.

Many addicts complain that they use compulsively even though they don't "like" what they're doing. That's a dead give away that your will has been subverted by that dopamine mechanism in the primitive brain. There's only one cure - the one you're making progress with. Restore equilibrium. Otherwise that slippery slope is always beckoning.

Remember what this guy said, "It was like when I used to smoke cigarettes, in the end I hated smoking cigarettes and after 10 years (exactly) off of cigarettes I'm amazed I had such a habit as the smell of cigarette smoke grosses me out: I don't even like to be near people who smoke. I have the same feelings about porn, I hate it but through the years it was my escape from my own problems and I forced it."

In the middle of attempted

In the middle of attempted recovery. Withdrawal I think is killing me. Chain smoking, biting my finger nails till there is nothing left...anxious as hell. I tried to sleep it off, but I can't.

The bitch with this is that the preoccupation with P and MB is just being replaced by the preoccupation with TRYING NOT to use it. Before it was preoccupation with indulging in it, now it's preoccupation with not.

I'm tempted to say withdrawal is even more mind consuming.

Also I noticed that I can't stop "touching it". Just like adjusting it, pulling on it...taking it out and looking at it. I feel like a real freak by saying this publicly.

I watched a documentary called "I can't stop masturbating" and I freak out. One of those guys was gay and his life was almost identical to mine. No friends, no job, fear and anxiety with social situations, isolation, you name it. But his habit seems much worse than mine. Now I am worrying about this...on top of fighting the withdrawal.

Sorry you're having a tough time

Have you tried any of the techniques suggested by others? As you point out, it might help to react to those urges with some constructive action, rather than just fighting yourself. It's easier to move *toward* something new, than *against* something that has become a habit.

Good luck.

Funny...

But I'm not under the influence of drink. brain stimulants? Dopamine? I hope...

I'd hate to think I am just grasping onto all of this as an "excuse" and that my behavior isn't an illusion, but an expression of repressed core desires or my true self that has just been buried and denied.

So far I keep failing. MB'ed three times in the last few hours.

What this feels like? Total Dr. Jeckle and Mr Hyde. That's the best way to describe it. As if there is two people inside me and I can't tell who is the real me or if they are both me.

Anyway, I need to get back on track in order to get find recovery. I am going to sleep at 12 in the afternoon and waking up at night. I can't do things and be active during such hours, so there is just nothing to do but sit alone on the internet.

Lonely is another key part to this. Somebody the acting out with chatroom sex is just a way to feel connected to people.

Oh yeah..

I'm not very similar to that gay guy in the documentary. I don't use "sex toys" or have to run into bathrooms while I am out to MB. Though I have done it at work (when I used to work) in the bathroom and once did it on a train.

So I guess I do have a history of being VERY compulsive. But 10-15 times a day? I probably have, but really don't do it these days...I can't!

I keep thinking

you might read that material I sent you, but I realize you probably aren't feeling up to it right at the moment. Wink If you had read it, you would know that porn IS a super-stimulant. It affects the brain *like* a drug. Scientists who look at brain scans of men arousing themselves and ejaculating say the brain shows activity similar to drug use.

The occasional orgasm, especially *with* a partner, with plenty of time to return to equilibrium afterward, is not a problem (although it may not lead to as much harmony between partners as an approach like karezza). But a porn/masturbation addiction is something else. It's all dopamine and no oxytocin (connection with others). This makes it even *more* stimulating and *less* satisfying. Very like drug use.

It also occurred to me that the chatroom is your "connection" to others. Are you willing to try substituting a 12-Step group? You need that sense of connection with trusted companions...just as we all do. Why not at least try it? You have nothing to lose. There are several organizations listed here that could help connect you: http://www.reuniting.info/science/porn_addiction_good_luck

As you feel more centered, I think we'll hear the same thing from you as we hear from others who are recovering, "I feel more like my real self." At that point you'll be able to sort out your lingering questions.

Don't stay in the dark hell where you are now. Whoever the real you is, it's not that!

Hugs,
Marnia

A coment

Hi Conflict.

When I came here Asher said to me that I was in the same boat he was. And you, me and asher, we are in this boat, fighting for ourselves. (ps. I am Brazilian, I have some difficulties in english).

I suggest you choose with care men friends, because it is very common other men come close to you just to use you.
I think you can trust in Marnia and others, they help me and they can help you too. They did not ask me to do anything, no money, no respect, no judgment. They just help and take care of others.

May your angel be with you. And he is. You are in a good place, here in reuniting. He brought you here.

jacó

Conflict, there is something else...

I have found that part of the 'downward spiral' of out-of-control 'zoning out' is the lack of proper sleep, nutrition and exercise. These three things, particularly making sure you get enough vitamins and minerals in your diet, can help to regain a little balance. I'm not claiming they will cure everything straight away, but in my experience, they really do help. Even if you have to take a vitamin and mineral pill to get them (get good quality ones though, with 'chelated' minerals for easier assimilation. Ask at a health foods store if in doubt).

Even if you can't fix all three at once, you could just do what you can with two or even one of these elements.

I'm...

Really about to give up. I went without P and MB for one day. Then I woke up just as day 2 was starting full of anxiety and feeling bored out of my skull with nothing to do. Then I noticed that there was some pre-ejaculation down then. Long story short, I struggled with it, but eventually gave in and MB. No porn, but was in a chat room.

So far I have not been able to make it to three days without it. Sometimes it feels the only way I can get my thoughts clear is to do it. My dreams have been filled with sexual images and all kinds of confusing things. Now since I relapsed, it could set off a string of doing it compulsively, but I wouldn't.

So I've failed yet again. Where do I go from here now? I've attempted this before, but I always fail and after a while, I just stop visiting sites like this.

Now I feel I have to go back to square one. Every thing seems worse during the initial withdrawal, that it seems why even bother?

I'm MB, yet I feel no desire for the opposite sex and it's stressing the hell out of me.

And, go on. you can.

I think you are felling what we fell. Porn dreams is a way you use to clean the mind. In time they will go out.
The past habits are some kind of rope you tied so firmly. It needs time to remake. The beginning is really hard, but you will see the results in few weeks. Even if you just win in one or two days. You will fell that is different and gain more hope and will power.
Listen to Marnia and others, they can give you good advices.

jacó

Make a list of all

the constructive suggestions you've read here. And see which ones you can apply immediately.

It sounds like you're trying to conquer your habit by willpower alone, in isolation, without employing any of the suggestions in Alex B's post or Jkasali's visualization techniques or the support of a 12-Step group.

If you were thinking more clearly, you'd know that it would be very hard to succeed that way. Are you setting yourself up for failure?

*a big hug*

Good idea.

[quote=Marnia]the constructive suggestions you've read here. And see which ones you can apply immediately.[/quote]

I'll do that.

One thing I've noticed is that there are a lot of articles I read online that make sense to me and make me feel better about a lot of stuff. But it never lasts. I can't just say "OK, that's it". I always either forget the key pieces of information or just disregard them.

I'm sure certain that I'm not gay nor bisexual. A lot of what is written about men (who identify as straight) that engage in or think about homosexual behavior, I can relate to and always "knew". Love and romance was never something anybody ever discussed with me and I don't think I thought a whole lot about it when I was younger, but I always just "knew" the concept of it all. I've always just "knew" that sex with somebody that you love is ten times better than a one night stand. I never thought about love/romance and how it relates to those with a homosexual orientation. But I've always known I wasn't gay nor bi, because I didn't think in those terms. I guess there was a few times when I was younger and throughout the years that I questioned my sexuality, but just "knew" that behavior wasn't what defined orientation. Years before I read it.

Yet, I always forget this and find myself re-reading the same articles over for reassurance.

Anyway, during that one day of abstinence, I did think a lot. I've realized that I'm pretty much controlled by my primitive brain, even outside of the porn and masturbation.

For example...I think about eating McDonalds. Even though I know it's cheap crap that I always end up regretting I paid almost $10 for after I eat it and just feel bloated and still hungry. Even though I say "I really shouldn't be eating this crap"....I still give into it. Even though I have plenty of other options.

Aside from the porn and masturbation, my other interests are very gear towards hunting and gathering. I'm a record collect and I do get the high when I am digging through the crates of a record shop and pull out a rare record and very often, I pay very high prices for a record, when I could use that money for more important and practical things. I've even bought records and CD's with money that was to be used to eat and actually went for a few days hungry.

I've also always "known" that all of this was just a substitute for the rewards in life that aren't easy to come by. I'm jealous of the guy who is my age with a good paying job, place of his own and girlfriend he sees every day. He has all of that and all I have is an addiction to porn that I can't break. On top of a sexual orientation crisis....which makes me feel like I am a teenager all over age. My development was arrested and in many ways, I am still 15 years old. Which makes me scared....cause I was always one step beyond the rest and I've heard that people who are older and just "coming out" experience what is like a "second adolescence".

ALL of this information doesn't help, but hinder me. The amount of info on the net, especially from so many different sources is enough to confuse anyone and make them question themselves.

I'm starting to see patterns in what arouses me. I think the whole gay thing isn't about desire for another man, but doing something transgressive. The heavy focus that is put on the sexual acts and getting off, without any emotional ties or string attached.

My rational brain says "No, you're a straight man and straight men don't do that. It's also sleazy, unclean and not safe and something you're going to regret". But when I get locked in the thought, my primitive brain does it's own rationalization and I'm kind of under a trance. Which I always snap out of once orgasm is achieved. But my rational brain has been strong enough not to be so over powered and spellbound where I've actually acted out outside the world of the web again.

I feel all of this has given me a dirty secret, thus making me no good for an honest relationship with a female. It's all become such a part of my life, I feel I just couldn't be with a girl and keep this from here. That I've had an addiction to porn and MB, had sexual orientation crisis and thought and got aroused by acting out with other men....it's so egostystonic. Truth is, I just couldn't share all of this.

This is why I want to overcome this so much, that it's all just a very distant memory and I will one day be so happy, especially with a female, that all of this will just seem like no big deal. I'll forget all these articles, all these websites, all these images...

In my opinion..

..you just really need to relax a bit. :)

Really, take it easy. You have an addiction, and it sucks. Plus you are still in the middle of it, and the chemicals are influencing your thinking. But self-pity and making a list of your problems to yourself will only take you more into depression and addiction. It doesn't help one bit. And information overloading will make things worse. You already know that getting information doesn't lead you anywhere, so stop it.

You may be suffering from circular thinking, when your thoughts simply swirl inside your mind and systematically reach the same conclusion every single time. I was captured into this pattern for YEARS. I discovered it only in hindsight. You need to break this pattern if you want to see some progress.

First of all, accept where you are. I mean accept what happened, stop thinking and overrationaliting about it, and look at the future.

Take this from me - I am in your same situation, more or less: years lost in addiction, no real place in society because of my lack of both social skills and "official" education (I work online, luckily) and no girlfriend. I have a couple of friends from high school, but I haven't made any new human connection in 8 years. Can I change my past? No. Does it benefit me to think about how unfair this is? NO. Will that make things worse if I do? YES. So we have two choices: accept it and move forward, or continue to suffer and move backward. There's no middle ground and no staticity.

Have you considered a vacation? I am not talking about palm trees, pristine beaches and volleyball. I am talking about removing yourself from your current environment for a while and find a quiet place to heal. At least one month of uninterrupted peace and tranquility. No porn, no internet, no additional information, no junk food, nothing. You've been overstimulated! Bring some inspirational literature and movies with you, stock up on (healthy) food so you don't have to go out and plan your new future.

Think out of your mind by using a diary - that keeps your thinking linear, not circular. Use it as a problem solving tool, not as a blog - don't write down bad stuff, just possible solutions.

I already do this and it reveals amazing insights. I want to take my own vacation as soon as I finish a course I should begin in less than week.

*sigh*

Yes, it is a trance. And yes, it will seem like an old, empty nightmare when you've recovered.

Just letting information wash over you doesn't sound like it's serving you very well. Collect it and think about it. And try applying some ideas. I think a journal might really help you, even if you type it online. That way you can look back over any good ideas and see what you think of them later. You can also write down what hurts, and look at that the next day to see how much is "real."

I know it's hard to focus when your dopamine is low, but the very act of focusing on a goal can help raise it back up. (Think of a hunter setting out on a hunt.) Speak up if you need help finding some of the more practical posts.

Even taking a single constructive step when you're blue...like going out for some fresh air, or journaling your feelings, can make a huge difference in how you feel. You are putting yourself in control of your life - and no longer feel life a leaf swirling on the water.

Hugs,
M

So...

I seem to be making some improvement and actually becoming a bit more clear on things. The MB, Porn and Chat Room abuse is dwindling down and becoming less compulsive and I'm actually learning.

Tonight, much to my dismay, A trigger went off. It caused anxiety and arousal and I got on the porn sites and masturbated. Right after, I got depressed and that reminded me WHY I want to stop and even need to. Yet, soon after I found myself needing to repeat the behavior again. To manage the depression I guess, but also because it seems that every time I MB and use porn and look for people to "get off" with in chat rooms, it always seems like something was missing. It's as if I am trying to find some wisdom or achieve something, find an answer in the behavior.

I don't get myself. I didn't want to bring this up, but the trigger came when me and my dad were driving past a place close to my house that has the reputation for being a "cruise spot", when guys hooked up for quick, NSA sex. Right away my mind started to think about it, ponder it and give thought to poking around it by myself. I got aroused and I dread it. I then begin to question WHY I find it compelling and arousing. I can't tell if it's because I an just not heterosexual and desire men or if it's the seediness of it, the risk, the "dirty" element and the secretive element as well. Maybe it's both? Adding excitement to my dull life (revelation perhaps?).

I don't get it. Sometimes I walk around a store like a zombie thinking about if I am gay or not, if I come off as being gay and such. Not realizing that men in the place are not turning my head, but women are. I don't walk around with an erection when I see women in public (which worries me?) but they do capture my attention and I do try to get them to notice me, make them aware of me.

Yet I don't experience this with guys. But if I think of homosexual secretive anonymous sex acts, I get aroused.

Today I looked at some gay/bi porn. I noticed that mentally and emotional I am dreading getting aroused and have an "oh no" feeling in my stomach. Yet I get aroused. I actually feel an erection coming on while I am trying to NOT get one.

So I am not mentally or emotionally aroused, just physically "down there". I don't get it.

On top of this, I've also been thinking a lot about a girl that works at an antique shop near me. I never make much conversation (for some strange ass reason, when confronted with girls ...I seem to purposely come off as uninterested? Maybe scared to appear to be a leech or vulnerable? Or just my ego?).

I feel so strongly for her, I'd ask her out. But my damn doomed life prevents me from it. I don't have a drivers license and this isn't the city where you can go all around without a car. I'm still a damn teen. A 26 year old 16 year old.

I know

exactly how it feels to be a 26 year old in a 16 year old body. I was a 16 year old in a 24 year old body 2 years ago. Most of the guys around my age has twice or more of my life experience. I didn't drive and stuff. But I realized that the solution is problem solving, not rationalizations or self pity. Basically you grow by going through challenges. No challenges - no growth.

I got a driving license, lost weight, catched up with some cultural stuff I missed. I am still working at it. Relationships still baffle me, but I will probably take the plunge and just throw myself at them and see what I get.

When I try to solve a problem I always start by stating it in either the affermative form or, if I feel like it, in a question form ("How do I.." "What's the best way to..") and then I see what my mind comes up with.

Examples..

Problem: Confusion
Solution: Stop porn and masturbation. Identify the triggers and avoid them.

Problem: Talk to the girl of the antique shop.
Solution: Search information about antiques in Google, memorize the basics, think something to say, say it.

Problem: No driving license.
Solution: ...get a driver license. Wink

It is clear from the way you write and from your thoughts that you are a quite smart guy. I am sure that if you work at it you will find a rational solution to most of the problems. Action is the next step.

I admit that the sexual confusion thing may not be easy to solve, but stopping porn and masturbation is a first step - at least you will know if it works or not. Minimum 2 months - I tried to go for 7 days without and then did an experiment which failed.

Stoping the Porn..

Is tough. One day free of it and I will feel good, then I go back. I then start seeing that as proof that it's my porn/masturbation addiction, but an actually reflection of my sexual orientation and means that it's a real desire of mine and something I need in my life...which scares me. I don't give myself a enough time.

Might be because 1 and a half days without it, seems like a life time...since it's been such a part of my life.

I do have a fear that I will stop the porn/MB and then find myself developing attraction for men.

That's normal!

I felt like crap for 3 days straight when I stopped porn for the first time. I was literally jittering. That was when I realized I was addicted and, in fact, seems the norm. I know I guy who was addicted to a computer game (Civilization) and he followed the same identical pattern: first day seems ok, second day crap, third day hell on hearth.

I failed a lot of times to get clean, and I am still not (I will know that I am when I will have found a girlfriend) but every time it gets better and better. It's just a matter of focus.

You are right when you say that porn is a part of your life, because it undoubtely is, as it was for me. And letting go something that it's part of your life, even if dangerous, is scary.

In fact, you will get nowhere if you simply go cold turkey and don't find anything to substitute your addiction with. You will probably simple indulge in something else - food, obsessive collections, whatever. So you really need to find some kind of goal or activity, possibly engaging and maybe productive.

Picture yourself ten years from now: how will you be if you don't take that decision? Surely not better, and very possibly much worse.

Your fear simply reveals, in my opinion, that you already feel an attraction for men. You don't seem to actually need porn to feel that, apparently. It's inside your mind.

I am not saying that it is really what you are. I don't know. Marnia posted a lot of interesting articles about sex orientation which may somewhat reveal a connection.

But what about this perspective: the worst thing that can happen is that you let go the fake stuff the porn throws at you, and at least you get in contact with a more real feeling that comes from inside. A false and confused feeling perhaps, but at least real. I see that as progress. You can work on that afterwards.

But until you leave the Porn Wonderland, you will never know and spend the rest of your days in doubt.

Oh, and by the way.. you give yourself 24 hours per day, actually. There isn't much choice. Wink It's just a matter of how you spend that time.

Conflict,

just want to mention that low dopamine *creates a powerful sense that something is missing.* You will never "put your finger on" what it is. It will morph from one thing to another as your rational brain tries to figure out what's missing.

Nothing's missing but *dopamine.* I know you are thinking that that can't be true because you're still missing your driver's license, a girlfriend, peace of mind, a life... Smile But honestly, if our thoughts and expectations create our reality, we can only create full, abundant lives if we feel abundant *inside* first.

This is why getting off of that intense roller coaster of extreme highs and extreme lows is such an important first step. As you feel balanced again, you'll *automatically* have the oomph to meet a lot of your other goals. Promise. Be bold. Whatever you discover when you're balanced, go ahead and find it out.

Now...you point to a very important key. You can't just *fight* the urge. You won't succeed unless you have some larger purpose to pour your energies into. Jkasali seems to be a natural at this. You can become one, too.

Here's what one person said:

In my experience, there are actually two ways to be celibate while waiting for the right partner, and I’ve been both. One is about repression of sexual energy. Fighting your sexual desire out of fear can cause physical and emotional complications, sexual fantasies, and even perversion (as seen in the media coverage of Catholic priests and child abuse). The other kind, though, is about transformation of sexual energy. This is the kind that benefits me. It is difficult to distinguish at first, and I think most people who attempt to give up masturbation almost certainly will experience discomfort in the beginning.

Transforming sexual energy basically means using it for a higher purpose, such as personal growth, spiritual practice, service to others, and so forth. In my case I went back to school and amazed myself with my academic performance. I can honestly say that my physical and emotional health are much better than when I was masturbating frequently, and I still have a healthy sex drive, as far as I can tell! But I learned that I could not just stop masturbating, yet continue doing everything else the way I did before I stopped, such as isolating myself, or zoning out with TV

You have been in a bad dream for so long that you've not been thinking big enough! Pick a star, and gradually let yourself be drawn toward it as you gently bring yourself back into balance. You may even find you ask that goddess out! Wink

Listen to the woman, Conflict

She knows what she's talking about. I'm 29, I have no car, no boyfriend, and virtually no social life outside of school. The most exciting thing I've done in the last couple months was escort a couple 80 year old women to happy hour! And as pathetic as that sounds, I'm happier and more satisfied with my life than I've ever been... until I MB, and then you'd think it was the end of the freakin' world. It gets better, but you MUST stop to find out. Otherwise, you're just running in circles.

Sucks..

Is the putting of sexual energy into other things, Sublimation?

This stuff about being gay is an obsession that is dominating my life. I feel, OK...so I've gotten aroused by gay thoughts and porn. Maybe it's just due to the porn and preoccupation with sex. But I also think, what if it's not? What if but avoiding it mentally..I am not just suppressing it? Will it lead me to a false life and the deceit of a female if I ever meet one? Will it explode one day or manifest in other ways? Would I just be lying to myself?

Tonight is such a nightmare. MB'ed three times and went into a gay chat room. I noticed, I get aroused by sexual chat with other males and it brings me to orgasm. Yet after, I lash out at them in the room and put everyone to the question. I read people here developed a distaste for their partners after orgasm. What's going on? Why do I lash out? I am beginning to think I truly am a closet case who just can't face the reality of it.

But I also think it's due to sickness of myself and the whole world of it all. The fact I know a lot of those so-called bisexual men express their feelings so openly online, yet are hiding it from their wives and families. The fact they would be quick to label me gay or bi, as if they are out and proud of what they do and don't keep it a secret.

But I will say, the cyber with guys seems to be a substitute. For instance, you can spend hours in a chat room before you established a conversation with a female. Once that happens, you then have to wonder if it's really a female anyway. When you want that "instinct gratification", it could be frustrating and it's as if your mind cancels that out and tells you to go to the gay room. Which you can find somebody to chat dirty with automatically. Regardless of how tasteless your screen name is. I don't want to be chained to this stuff, but MB seems like something I "need" to do before I can do other things, so I have this "let's get it over with" mentally.

I think this is what makes the world of anonymous, NSA sex so compelling. I can't decide if I have a genuine curiosity to perform oral sex on another man. I get aroused when thinking of it, but I can't put forth the effort to actually do it, which makes me feel that it's most likely something I don't want. But I also say I want a girlfriend, yet I've done nothing to make that happen. I see girls I am attracted to (or think I am)...but I don't approach them, I fantasize and hope they approach me though.

I also read about how the "chase" is often the arousing thing. Seeking out the next compelling cyber chat or porn video. There is always the feeling of "who knows who we will meet in the chat now".

There has been times when I have actually exchanged emails with other males about NSA quick, word-less encounters. The "leading up" to it, is the heart racing arousing part. But right before the deal is almost done (giving time and address)...reality seems to creep in and it's all put an end to. I delete all the emails and any traces of what I was doing.

I noticed the heart racing, excitement/anxiety? don't sure...is similar to that which I used to get when I used to order porn (lesbian mind you) behind my parents back through the cable box. It was like a shot of adrenaline.

So it might just be that which I seek. I always got that feeling from taking part in bad, secretive things. Not even when I had sex with females, which I can't recall was ever like that. It was usually just pure lust and acting on total instinct.

If I am bi, I don't want to be. I can't accept it...there, I said it.

When talking with the so-called bi's online, few will ever ask "what do you look like". They just want to know how big you are down there. It seems like most base their identity on sexual acts, kinks that turn them on.....not genuine romantic/emotional/sexual attraction. I believe there are real bisexuals, but they are far and few between.

I was doing good, now look at how many hours I wasted. It really is a slop you sink down and it's mind blowing how subtle it starts. How you can find yourself five hours later asking "what the hell?" and wondering how you ended up where you are at.

I'm sorry if none of this makes sense. I have this over whelming need for confession, not internalizing it. In many ways, I think the cyber sex and role play rooms operate as confessionals.

I see how the chemicals behind all of this work to. Cause right now I feel like I'm on coke. Mind is racing, fingers typing a million miles an hour, chain smoking.....yet I can't remove my ass of this chair to do anything productive. My mind is just filled with too much.

*pats head*

You're getting it. Try reading back over your posts. You'll see what you need to see. Your primitive brain is telling you *anything* to keep you getting your fixes, like a good boy. It's sneaky, but you *can* take charge.

What could you put your attention on instead?

Well....

Yesterday I woke up feeling good with what I felt with a revelation. I realized that in the past, the porn, the masturbation, fantasies and so on where something that I just didn't think much about when I wasn't engaging in it. Though it would creep in every now and then.

Then one day I drew links to it and various aspects of my life. That's when I sunk in the black hole and literally found myself not knowing who I was within minutes.

Yesterday, I remembered this and the need to acting out seemed to diminish. Felt no need for the porn, cyber sex, chat rooms or anything and it all seemed much less appealing. I still masturbated once.

Back then, I used to be able to make the distinction between my instinctual romantic/sexual/emotional desires and the secret world of porn.

Then today, I woke up today feeling like crap. The revelation I came to yesterday, was a forgotten about blur and all the thoughts were creeping back in. This happens A LOT...I always seem to forgot information, which results in seeking out info again for reassurance and peace of mind.

Yesterday, I established that I was heterosexual. Today, I woke up full of thoughts and looked at two gay porn videos. I was trying to not get aroused, but I did and soon I found myself back to square one. The thing that makes this a nightmare for me, is the fact I can't seem to get such instant physical arousal from straight porn. I have to struggle to concentrate and even then, it's just very, very mild and interrupted with intrusive images of homosexual sex and imagery.

I didn't masturbate to them, but rather to some picture of a woman and a straight (but nasty) video. Both times my erections were weak and I didn't produce much ejaculation...which leaves me feeling low and stressed. Each time I do it, I have to fight away the images of gay sex...but at the same time, I sometimes (maybe out of desperation? coping mechanism) suddenly find myself with thoughts like "well, maybe you are bi and it's OK"....for THAT moment at least. So yes, maybe my primitive brain is trying to pull tricks.

But if my primitive brain (which is in my head) finds gay porn arousing....doesn't make me not heterosexual?

There is something odd here at work. When I have these moments of feeling clearly heterosexual, I can become aroused by women. When there is doubt, it's like I have a mental block. Like I can't get aroused without knowing/feeling I am heterosexual first.

One of the most stressful and I do mean stressful parts of this, is not the mental block to woman as much as it's to a vagina. I just don't seem so obsessed by it as other men are and some have said "You're gay" for this. I mean...pictures and thoughts of it, there is like a mental block. But in real life, I am pretty such I instinctly go right for it...if you know what I mean. Though the last time I had sex, I seemed to have MAJOR anxiety over it..which resulted in a terrible let down of a performance.

But then again, does this really mean anything? Women don't walk around with their bodies covered and vagina's exposed, so I know there is more to heterosexuality than a desire for there vagina.

I'm pretty sure I DO desire it and want it badly. But why am I not aroused down there? But the image of a penis creates a feeling down there?

I've always desired THE GIRL more than her private area.

All of this is what is plaguing my mind. Yesterday, I listened to music, played some games, did some organization and felt pretty good.

The day of not worrying was great. In the moments of being porn free and nothing thinking of my sexual orientation and what effect it will have on my future, was great.

It amazed me the memories of the past (good ones) I had and now much my mind has buried in it. How there is SO much in my head that is being blocked by this other crap.

Everytime I try "not think about it"...and get lost in other stuff, I feel like I might be being a phony. "maybe you just listen to heavy metal to hide your true self", "maybe wearing this is just a cover up". Now if I am having these thoughts, maybe my identity is fake?

Like I am running from the truth and my false image will deceit myself and others.

I'm really mentally screwed up tonight.

uh...

I've watched really hardcore stuff. I would call any of it "affectionate". I really don't like to see men kiss or be "passionate". It's just hardcore porn. Usually big budget type that is far removed from reality and usually with a "forbidden" vibe to it. It's not really the men that count in them, but the sexual acts themselves. But at the same time, I couldn't watch too gross guys do it...so...maybe I do have a preference which indications an attraction?

With straight porn, I base what I watch on the girl in the video....sometimes the subject matter.

As for what Richard said. Yes, in all the porn videos I watch, the men are always the "perfect" type. Early on, I couldn't stand to see men kiss or see anyone with lots of body hair...but in time I guess I am desensitized to it.

But the "lacking of masculinity" ....I can relate to it. But right now, I don't want to be a buff body builder type, but I can say that not being that has sort of made it very hard to relate to the typical heterosexual porn...where you have the aggressive well endowed muscular man and the submissive perfect female. I noticed that when I watch heterosexual porn, I can't tell what I am aroused by....as far as the sexual acts go.

I do understand what you say, but I don't like to see the word "God" used (sorry). That with what else you said, is a little to close to christian ex-gay groups.

They make the mistake of thinking that a homosexual orientation is a mental/development problem and that all gay men should change. That's the only mistake they make by saying that.

I do believe that men can "act out" due to all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with orientation.

These turn-on's don't feel innate to me, but I do largely believe that sexual orientation is innate for many. Cause I see it as being so natural to some.

Also, I've seen small child that you just know will be gay later on in life. A friend of mine was once talking about a kid he knew in elementary school who "every one just knew he would grow up to be gay" and sure enough, years later he did.

I have to say that the thought of being gay doesn't scare me as much as the loss of attraction/desire for a female and losing the ability to response sexually and emotionally to them.

Canibalism of Male Attributes

I have no direct experience in this arena but have befriended a couple of men that are married but acting out homosexually.

In both instances, they observed a pattern where they are attracted to men with the male attributes that they felt they were lacking in their own lives and their homosexual acting out works somehow to help them feel like they are temporarily acquiring the male characteristics they are desiring in their own lives.

I had deep empathy for their gender confusion as they maintained their heterosexual lives with their wife and children and felt deep shame for their homosexual acting out.

In their sharing, they both indicated that they were working through therapy to make peace with themselves and love themselves for the way God made them.

A big first step was to find serenity through not acting out so as to gain equilibrium in there day to day existence.

They were also able to join us in our recovery meetings where they were able to relate to us as men in our common bond of recovery and discover how to relate to other men without have to sexualize their feelings. It has been a growing experience for all of us.

For what it's worth.

Richard

I'm confused

What mention of "God" are you referring to? Could you send a link?

Also, I asked about what gay porn you watch because I suspect that the *addictive* part of the experience is coming from the *hardcore* *forbidden* aspects. Porn makers know how to get that dopamine in your brain flaring.

Again, until you get off the drug, you won't know what your real tastes are. This debate may just be slowing you down from dealing with the addiction itself.

Finally, is it time to start a new thread in your own blog? This one is awfully long. Smile

*a big hug*

It was in reply...

To this quote "Was in reply to this quote "In their sharing, they both indicated that they were working through therapy to make peace with themselves and love themselves for the way God made them." from Richardsnewsong.

I have noticed in the past that porn makers feed off that. They do it with lightning, editing and the overall subject matter and vibe. In the world of porn, there is no right or wrong. They feed off the guilt and everything else.

I was up to the same tricks again tonight. In chat rooms with porn and all that. I noticed that when "in the zone" I have a dual feeling of knowing I will regret it and that I am digging myself in deeper, but at the same time a feeling of "I don't care, all that matters right this very second is getting off". I guess that's being under the influence of Dopamine? I really do question the sincerity of what I do too, because during cyber I find myself just saying anything and agreeing to anything and lying and making things up just to keep the attention of the other person. I'm like a "sexual chameleon".

And yes, let's just kill this thread. I will post blogs from now on. I've already did that on another site, if you'd like to read it. But maybe you should PM me for the link.

Sounds like you're figuring it out

Yes, dopamine can *definitely* produced that altered state you describe. This is explained in that material I sent you. People giving a dopamine-like drug developed all sorts of addictions (doctors didn't realize...and gave it to them to control shaking).

Awareness is power.

Conflict, I can totally

Conflict,

I can totally understand your position. I've been through most of what you described and I still go through it. But I hope you can allow me to express what I think on what you wrote (btw I haven't really read the whole thread, time's running out, so sorry if I'm only reiterating what someone said). From the posts of yours that I read, I could clearly identify my own self being in that situation.

I suggest you stop looking at the addiction from the point of view of what techniques you can use "this time" to overcome the addiction.

First, you really want to understand why you want to overcome addiction in the first place. Believe me, I keep having feelings and thoughts such as some you described, but the way out of that, at least temporarily, is to simply calm down and broaden your perspective -- not in the way of belittling your problem (by thinking of your problem as rather easy compared to what some people have had to go through) but by understanding that there is a lot going at work beneath the surface that's going to take a lot of time to get sorted out. Acceptance comes first. And I don't mean giving up, I mean acknowledgment of the fact.

Next, you'd want to simply

Next, you'd want to simply analyze your current situation. Why do you even desire an orgasm in the first place? What makes you attracted towards men? (You've got insight in that direction, and I agree with that insight, it's the same with my own HOCD) Why do you think that there is nothing better than an orgasm that you can yield to right now? Are you shutting out some specific thoughts and feelings to let yourself have the orgasm (e.g. suppressing your conscience or finding some excuse to escape some plan you've made to defend yourself from the temptations) Every temptation is thus an opportunity to understand your motives better. In fact, sometimes I even found myself actually seeking an orgasm under the pretension of "trying to understand my motives" (of course, don't do this, don't even try to test yourself "to see if I can resist temptations"... the risk/reward ratio is simply too lopsided to justify anything like that).

(Note: when I use phrases like "defending from temptations", I'm not really using them in any orthodox sense... I don't imply anything that ancient religious books might, I'm using such phrases only for the lack of a better one)

Once you've got an analysis done, you'll have a much clearer idea of where to go next. Don't rely on a psychotherapist to do some kind of Freudian analysis of your sexual motives. Simply ask yourself and write the answers as they come up in your mind. You know yourself better than any therapist ever could.

I wish I could say more, but I'm really running out of time. Also, please note, just in case I sounded like I was preaching or pretending to be some kind of accomplished recoverer, I'm not. (I'm struggling more than ever with this). I really only wrote up what I thought you might find helpful.

Thanks Frank

The effort to help others can sometimes lead to powerful insight.

Welcome back. Since it has been a while, you may not be aware that *straight* men with no doubts about their orientation are *also* finding gay porn attracting. The primitive brain just wants a fix. A jolt of dopamine. It doesn't have ANY moral judgment at all. It's incapable of it in fact. But it's great at registering shock, pain, horror, fear, etc.

It just says, "I'm now hooked on supranormal stimulation," and I've got to keep getting it. Every time it gets "used to" something, it's not as intensely stimulating anymore. So it has to move on to:

A. something even more shocking, or

B. something that you personally have such a "charge" on that it will perpetually be upsetting, and therefore able to register as a superstimulant. If you didn't give a damn about the "gay" issue, you'd have graduated to watching sex with goats by now. Wink

I don't mean to make light of your suffering...but I do hope to help you guys detach from the *substance* or *content* of this crap you're watching. YOUR BRAIN REALLY DOESN'T CARE. For it, it's just a visual *drug.* And it has to be overcome like a drug addiction does. Period. That's going to require up to eight weeks of *no such stimulation.* The sooner you start (again), the sooner you're through it. So when you're ready.... Smile

*a big hug for you both*

.........

[quote=Frank]

Next, you'd want to simply analyze your current situation. Why do you even desire an orgasm in the first place? What makes you attracted towards men? (You've got insight in that direction, and I agree with that insight, it's the same with my own HOCD) [/quote]

First, there is a real uneasiness when I see "attracted towards men" being applied to me. Attraction can mean different things and I'm not even clear on what "attract to" means these days. But It's been 24-hours since I've masturbated or looked at porn and what I've loved about the brief periods of abstinence that I've had, is that thoughts become a little clearer.. Right now reading all of this, anxiety rises and I'm experiencing a sensation "down there". Not full sexual arousal, just a feeling. Like it's telling me to "touch it". So right off the bat, it's clear that my acting out most of the time is rooted not by healthy sexual arousal, but by anxiety.

I can say I've had "man crushes", meaning guys I idolize and I still stylize myself after them and emulate different parts of their personality. But I've forced myself to think of them in a sexual way and it just doesn't work. I can't do it and nothing is arousing about it. I can't even visualize it for more than a few seconds.

It's as if the only way I could get aroused by thinking of a man, is if I objectify them.

[quote=Frank]Every temptation is thus an opportunity to understand your motives better.[/quote]

I've been using your approch. Rather than stress over the temptation of acting out, I simple reflect on it and ask myself "why".

I don't think I am attracted to men, but rather, the shockingness of let's say "gay sex". Although I personally don't find it shocking myself and I know a lot of other people don't find it shocking. I think part of the arousal is knowing that others would find it shocking had they known I was masturbating and thinking about such things. One strange thing, is that I often think of my ex-girlfriends while engaging in the behavior. I also think a large part of it has to do with subconscious desire to add some drama to my very dull life.

Why I do want to orgasm? I really don't know, but some stuff of the top of my head when examining the desire is

- Physical uncomfort. There is like a link between my head and my penis. It's as if my penis is sending my head a message to show attention and to give it sensation.

- I know my ex-girlfriend is in town. She wants nothing to do with me and hasn't contacted me at all. But just knowing that she is here and out doing who know's what. It sparks both sexual thoughts and a bit of depression I think. I fantasy about her being sexual with others. To me, I think this is a coping mechanism. To turn something that disturbs and hurts me into pleasure. On the surface, the whole dark and lurid side of it appears that it's just a "kinky" fantasy...which I guess the dopamine feeds off of.

[quote=Frank]In fact, sometimes I even found myself actually seeking an orgasm under the pretension of "trying to understand my motives" (of course, don't do this, don't even try to test yourself "to see if I can resist temptations"... the risk/reward ratio is simply too lopsided to justify anything like that).[/quote]

I do this very often. I don't know if it is an excuse to act out or the compulsive part of OCD, or if it's just that I really desire sex with another male and the compulsive viewing and thoughts of gay pornography is a reflect of that. Like many years worth of repressed sexuality.

It's not really an attempt to see if I could resist temptation, but simply to see if I could not be aroused by it. I often wonder if me trying to not get aroused by it, is putting so much emphasis that it's making my dopamine sky rocket. A lot of times I get aroused, but I never like ejaculating to it. I usually switch to images or videos of women before I do.

I do the same with straight videos. It's a crazy ritual. I basically stare at a video without touching myself and my pants down and see if I get aroused. I just stare at the screen. I think the lack of arousal with women is rooted in both desensitization and just overall anxiety.

In "real life", I know a woman can arouse me in a split second though. As I once wrote, last March all it took was a kiss on the lips to get my fired up and aroused for hours.

Not last night, but the night before. I found myself waking up in the middle of dreams that were plagued with homosexuality. Not really pornographic, just gay in nature. I felt like I was in a nightmare and was servery depressed. Lately on when I woke up a bit, I felt better.

I told my ex-gf that I was worried that I might not be hetero, as a matter of fact..I drove her nuts with the constant obsession. I lost her because of it...not that I care much not. It was a doomed relationship.

But anyway, she told me "You're not your head. I think things we do on instinct say more about who we really are". She said she saw it in my eyes that I wasn't gay.

It's as if something is driving me to become gay and live that way. Like it would just create a guilt and anxiety free life and explain it all. It's like an easy explanation...but I've in crazy moments said "OK, fine..you're gay, now what?" and even attempted "one week as a gay person" when I tried not to look at the opposite sex. I can't do it without freaking the hell out in minutes and feel like I am sinking into a black hole I wouldn't be able to get out of.

Currently

Right this minute, I am becoming obsessive about acting out. What is behind it? The uncertainty. Also I just got a glimpse of a woman and it made me want to explore my feelings. I should realize seeing her was a trigger, but my mind totally overlooks clues of heterosexuality, or possible heterosexuality.

I've noticed after some time of abstinence, I feel as if I am dead and useless down there. So in a way, maybe the desire to act out is my reminding myself of what I have between my legs.

It freaks me out this feeling, especially after I've said "no gay porn or thoughts". It's like after I say that and I don't become instantly aroused by a thought of a woman, I get nervous and want to do some practical exploration.

But I am not going to do that. Why? Last time I attempted to stop, I ended up giving in and doing it. Right after orgasm, I find myself saying "THIS is why you want to stop". Cause I felt just down and terrible and the answer to the questions and anxiety weren't answered.

You mentioned something about blocking out thoughts in order to achieve orgasm? Certainly. I have a feeling of "I know I am going to regret this, but I just HAVE to do it now.." after I got caught up in some porn cyber sex. Or sometimes I have a "who cares, worry about it later" attitude. Sometimes I just get rid of the negative feelings for a moment like "OK great, yeah...I'm bisexual, no big deal". While at the same time knowing I am digging myself into a hole and will regret and stress thinking that.

Sometimes I have a "fuck it" attitude. Like "who cares? Fuck everyone and everything", "this is my only shot at life and nobody else is giving me sex".

But by typing this......*calm*. I need to just relax.

Part of getting better, means I must stop dwelling and trying to understand and get comfort and insight from others. Cause this could be too much at times. Spending too much time on the site, is reminder that there is a problem and It's spending too much time occupied with it.

Honestly...

You have two addictions here. An addiction to porn, and supporting that, an addiction to obsessing over whether or not you are gay. If you ever want to have an actual relationship instead of looking at porn all the time, both of them have to go. It's just that simple.

Imagine you have a friend who is obsessed with whether he prefers Tibet or Indonesia, but hasn't left his house in several years because he can't stop looking at pictures from those countries and watching travel shows, and therefore is too out of shape to visit either place. Think about it...

I.

[quote=S8d9nf]You have two addictions here. An addiction to porn, and supporting that, an addiction to obsessing over whether or not you are gay. If you ever want to have an actual relationship instead of looking at porn all the time, both of them have to go. It's just that simple.

Imagine you have a friend who is obsessed with whether he prefers Tibet or Indonesia, but hasn't left his house in several years because he can't stop looking at pictures from those countries and watching travel shows, and therefore is too out of shape to visit either place. Think about it...[/quote]

Get what you are saying. However, to me it also suggests going out and experimenting and having sexual encounters with both men and women to see which I prefer.

I could of had many anonymous, no strings attached, purely sexual encounters with guys who weren't even interested in knowing my name. But I did this once, after a lot of conflict and regret it. Though I still feel the temptation, I haven't done it again and really don't want to.

So it's like I want to visit Tibet (women) but I am afraid to out of fear I might really want Indonesia (men) deep inside, even though I really don't want to want Indonesia.

I'm afraid visiting Indonesia will only lead to more guilt and shame and give me an even deeper secret...which will haunt me later when I am trying to enjoy Tibet. Or maybe kick start a cycle or revisiting Indonesia again and again....or once I visit, I will be forced to label myself an Indonesia, if you know what I mean...hehe.

But this is pointless, because we're really not talking about visiting two wonderful and exotica places in the world, but something that marks identity.

All of this makes me just want to say, fuck this. It's just too complicated and too much nonsense. I'll just label myself bisexual...but that just seems odd and not what I want to be.

Oops

Although it's what the analogy might seem to suggest, I in no way think you should try out sexual encounters with men, etc. I think the same as everyone else here, which is that the first thing you need to do is stop the porn, chatrooms, and everything else, and go out and make some actual, normal, nonsexual connections with real people. After a couple of months of that, when you feel in balance and get to know some people, maybe you'll find you want to ask someone out. At that point, it will be more clear to you which gender you want to hang out with romantically.

You will never settle your sexual orientation question by examining your porn and chatroom behavior because such behavior has temporarily KILLED your true orientation. I don't think you remember anymore what normal attraction feels like, because you're so used to a sudden, dopamine-jolt arousal. I think a lot of people have been persuaded that this is the only genuine kind of attraction. In fact, I used to wonder if I was abnormal because I didn't look at guys and immediately feel lust or something. Yet I have a perfectly successful relationship in spite of this. Lust is not necessary to having a good relationship, although it is necessary in porn because there's nothing else in porn to recommend it.

In short, GET OFF THE PORN, GET OFF THE PORN, GET OFF THE PORN. *Then* ask questions about your sexual orientation.

The following.....

Was going to be a blog. But I want my blog to be a new beginning and look at my addiction and feelings, not a log of my behavior.

__________________________________

So, I failed yet another attempt at recovery. Still couldn't make it 45 hours.

I was feeling lonely and bored. I entered into a transgendered chat room. Something very odd happened. I find a transsexual girl very very attractive, but I said the wrong thing which resulted in her ignoring me. I then found myself almost stalking....a transsexual? Feeling emotional hurt? Anyway, she sent me a pornographic image of herself and...of course the dopamine kicked it.

Now, oddly enough this isn't adding to my conflict over sexual orientation. What is strange, if I found myself acting the same way I used to with females. Though some would say she was a female. If I didn't know any better, I would never have taken her for transgendered. I entered this room with the idea that I wasn't going to act out sexually, but...yeah right. Now I see that is a lie...it has to be.

Was I showing romantic/emotional attraction to a woman with a penis?? Was I just angry that my ego got hurt...maybe I am just REALLY bored.

Anyway, to show my conflict and mood changes and confusion. I wrote this text document...BEFORE I entered the room:

What is the trigger right now? Or better yet, what the triggers.

"I started poking around a forum dedicated to sexual abuse survivors. There is a section dedicated to gay/bi/transsexual survivors and one dedicated to sexual identity issues.

Reading about how some men discover late in life that they have always been homosexual always triggers anxiety and worry. This makes me sick to say, but reading about some of the sex acts...I think it aroused me a bit. It's not the acts, but just words can contribute to that. I should of paid attention to those trigger warnings.

Also, there is a feeling of being lonely and bored. This triggers an urge to log into a sex chat room.

I, like many others would, wondered...why a sex chat room? Why not just a regular chat room or one devoted to an interest? I think I have the answer. In these rooms, everyone has a common ground. They want to get off on sexual chat. You don't have to reveal your true self nor do you have to worry about getting close to anyone. Everyone is out to use each other. For a NSA intimate connection or just dopamine candy.

The gay rooms are too sleazy and sexual. Besides, I want to make a connection with a woman. It would be fatal for me to enter a gay room with all the worrying and stress. Plus, right now I am pretty stable.

I thought about a transgendered room. Those are pretty sexualized, but it's very easy to feel as if you're chatting to a female. But I do know the underlining reason I want to enter a room like that, is for some hot and kinky thrills. Which I will later regret, so that is out of the question. In those rooms it is really easy to forget you're talking with a male or what was once a male. In that sense, they are kind of like blow up dolls with a pulse...with the "added" kink of being transgendered.

A long time ago, I decided...no more chat rooms. There are no real woman in sex chat rooms. After years of wasting time in them, I've realized this and it's no wonder I feel I lack a sense of heterosexuality. My life is simply void of women. Most of the women in those chat rooms, are really men. This I've always known, but it became very apparent after I had 3 of them confess it later on.

Chat rooms are a scam. A phony world of jacked up dopamine, where everyone is just an object to each other. The world is an amazing place of real thrills....happiness that could crush any of the illusionals of a sex chat room."

Notice the last few sentences. Out of anger and disappointment, I ended up having explicit cyber sex with a transvestite that included some homosexual content. Not under the spell of dopamine, I would never have found this person attractive. Hell, even under the spell of it I didn't...but I still acted out.

Now, I am like in the twilight zone. But I am pretty sure bordom, hopelessness, loneliness and the fighting and arguing in the house hold at what should be a happy time of year (always has been the worse) has a lot to do with it.

Right now I am just going to let the post orgasm lows and mood swings kick my ass until it's time to start fresh tomorrow.

I don't know much

About 12-step programs. I do know this is a problem, but it just seems strange to be in a 12-step program when I don't even have sex.

I think I attempted to do an online one, which would be best if possible. I don't think I could admit to this problem without being anonymous.

Would I need money? If so, I have none. I also still live with my parents and really don't have much of an active life. They pretty much know my every damn move. They would laugh and think I was joking if I told them. They just wouldn't believe me. They don't believe in such things...they are both plagued with problems, yet do nothing to help themselves. I'm also pretty sure my mother struggles with alcohol addiction too.

They would just tell me to "get my act together" and stop using excuses to hold myself down and all that.

So this is something I have to fight myself. I'm also afraid one of the major reasons I want to stop is because of the sexual identity problems. If I was 100% certain of my orientation and looked at nothing but hetero content, I don't think I'd care much.

But I do believe I am hetero, because one of the reasons I want to stop is because I want a damn normal (by my standards) life with a girlfriend and female companion. I want this, totally healthy and guilt free.

I feel like if I met a girl tomorrow and fell for her, I think I'd lose the desire to think about all of this and to look at porn.

But I realized recently, that porn has totally sexualized my mind and I sexualize everything...which has lead to my relationship problems. My only view of sex is the one shown in porn, which I know is far from reality. So I've ruined relationships with paranoid fears that my girlfriends were cheating, had hidden sexual desires, engaged in group sex when I wasn't around, preferred men with larger penises.

I woke up to another bad nightmare. I don't know what I am dreaming about, but when I first wake up my head is filled with crazy thoughts and images. The lack of women in my dreams is scaring me to death. It seems more like my conscious head though. I think from being so isolated by women, I've just lost the desire for them. I've lived so long without them, they just don't register as pleasurable anymore. In the heat of the moment with the non-straight porn, it remind me of when I first started getting involved with masturbation and porn, when it was all new. So I that has to be desensitization. I thought about sex much more than most do throughout my life.

Come 12:00AM, I'm going to make yet another attempt.

Did you check out

Any of these organizations?
* Sexual Compulsives Anonymous
* Sexual Addicts Anonymous
* Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
* Sexaholics Anonymous
Links available here: http://www.reuniting.info/science/porn_addiction_good_luck

12-Step groups are definitely for people hooked on porn, too. They're not just for people having sex. Trust me. You have a "classic case," and I think you would find it very comforting to have some companions who are coping with the same challenge.

I'm sure you can figure out something to tell your parents. If you go to a meeting and mention this concern, *someone* will have helpful ideas.

In any case, at some level, your parents would want you to be healthy, and to make healthier choices than they have.

Do something loving for yourself.

My parents..

Don't care. They are too busy dealing with their own inner demons to deal with mine. The only reason they would care is because how it would reflect on THEM. They would just assume I was a pervert.

They wouldn't even believe it. It just wouldn't be reality to them. I've never been open about my sexual interests.

I never had any "birds and the bees" talk with my dad and even today I feel uncomfort talking to him about the opposite sex (is that weird?). I've always had an embarrassed feeling about expressing my interests in the opposite sex.

I don't know. I think if I stepped foot into a 12-step program, it suddently would feel all too real and I would just back out and stop all of this out of fear. I just couldn't open up to a group of people.

It's so Egodystonic

You know,

addicts say that it's the first step that's the hardest.

Egodystonic or not, it seems you're suffering a lot right now. And it's not the kind of problem that's going to get better just by hoping. It's a tangible, brain disease that is showing up as compulsive behavior.

Be kind to yourself and get help.

Checked out the links...

The first one had some info, but seems to driven towards gay men. Reading some of the stuff on the site, I did freak out a bit. But I also felt better in some ways, because the testimonies from those men are fairly different from mine. For instance, one man felt he was worthless without the "attention from men". I've definitely felt this way for women, especially in my younger years.

The rest of the links made too many references to "God". One thing I dislike about a lot of these recovery programs, is that I feel I am changing the parts of myself that I actually do like. A lot of them just seem to have a hidden religious agenda of converting people into christians.

I could get through this alone. I wouldn't mind the support of ex-addicts though, or somebody who is just willing to listen to me. Somebody I could turn too in times of worry or when I feel like acting out.

I always carry around a feeling that people will eventually get sick of me though. Like right now, I feel I've pretty much worn out my welcome with this huge thread.

THIS MAY HELP

Hey Conflict, I was checking out this site because of my own porn/masturbation dependency and I came across your post, I can relate , check out my story.

First off i started with hardcore straight porn at age 17 and its all the sex I have known for the last 10 years , I just turned 28. All my life I considered myself to be straight, I was even a little homophobic, i would use the word "fag" pretty often. I was always very shy with girls, similar to what you said i think, and on a conscious level I felt like I yearned for a girlfriend and love and sex. I can look back on my life now and realize that on a subconsious level I for the most part avoided girls, I had one girlfriend in highschool that didnt last very long. Since then ive been so obsessed with porn(straight) and masturbation that I have been to a strip club about 6 times and had sex with one girl one time, thats all the sexual contact ive had in 10 years. Constantly I would tell myself that I wanted a girlfriend, but I never put that much effort into it, I always seemed to ask out girls that werent interested in me. I hung out with dudes but I never felt a sexual attraction to them. I can look back and through my whole life I can count maybe 5 times that I had homosexual thoughts (im 28), but I just considered them flukes or lonleyness because I never had success with having a girlfriend,I thought to myself "how can I be gay, Im not attracted to men and I jack off to chick porn constantly. And like you people often accused me of being gay, in high school and as an adult, but I thought they where crazy "im not fucking gay!", that was my response hehe.

The point where there was a change was when i was 27 and a half, and It started to bother me when I thought about all the people who thought I was gay. And I started to obssess with the thought , "why do so many people think im gay!? Im not gay!". And that thought ran through my head often for like two weeks. I had just recently started experimenting with marijauna with a friend, and I brought some home with me to smoke on my own. I noticed how cool it was to masturbate to porn when I was high, it was even more of an escape than before, short 30 sec video clips seemed to go on for 2-3 minutes, it was so cool at the time, but as I was looking at the usual porn I look at I started to get this urge to look at gay porn, it seemed kind of subconscious, and I kid you not, soon after I searched for and started masturbating to gay porn I had an epiphany I was like "dude yer gay!". I cant explain to you how CRAZY this was to me at the time, epiphany is the perfect word. I started saying to myself "dude yer gay,dude yer gay, dude yer gay" over and over, its not that I was looking at gay porn that made me think I was gay(I had a few times through out the years clicked over to gay porn, it didnt really appeal to me very much though) it was just a feeling that came over me, I couldnt believe it, I wasnt sure if I was trippin off the strength of the weed or if i really had suddenly in one moment finally stopped repressing homosexuality that has been there all along, that I was consciously somehow blocking out with more and more extreme straight porn(I always only focused on the chicks by the way. I think weed can actually be a gateway to your subconscious mind, I smoked before and have not had this realization, but maybe the timeing was just right or something because the thought of "being gay" "not being gay" had been on my mind so much at that time, or maybe I was just finally ready to stop repressing it on a subconscious level, I dont know. I woke up the next morning, now sober and I still felt the same way, I got on my pc and got off to more gay porn, I was convinced that it was real. Even though I was scared of the consiquences. My two brothers are homophobic, my friends are really homophobic.

Ever since then Ive gone back and forth still in disbelief early on, I battled with it in my mind for three months, I started noticing dudes on a physical level more and more every day, but I kept thinking maybe I played a mind trick on myself or something. To shorten this long ass story , its been about 7 months since my epiphany and I now fully realize and accept the truth that I am gay. And Im fine with it, my past and difficulties with girls finally made sense. I now realize the emotional attraction to boys(as in having a close best friend) that has always been there, the physical/sexual part was just blocked out for some reason(societal/family pressure to be straight I think. I can still get off to chick porn, I just objectify and over sexualize their body parts, women have sexy bodies its like a fetish for me, but im just not attracted to them in real life, I can finally see that clearly. I still battle with my porn addiction in that way, but I realized just because you get off to girls in porn , it doesnt necessarily make you truly straight. Being straight means you can on a romantic level, relate to, connect with and love someone of the oppossite sex, and see them as a whole person not a sexual object, thats my theory hah.

Not saying you are gay, but the story is kind of similar, you said you only ever been with 2 girls and so on. Just look into the the repression thing, its super powerfull, I mean it was SOOOOO deeply repressed for me. I think there are alot of repressed homosexuals out there that think they are straight, some of my friends heh.

One more thing, I also realized gay sex does not equal anal sex, many straight people do it to, and it is a MYTH that ALL gay men have anal sex, i personally have no interest in it, and I hate that stereo type. Peace!

Uh...OK.

[quote=mmawizard]Hey Conflict, I was checking out this site because of my own porn/masturbation dependency and I came across your post, I can relate , check out my story.

I was always very shy with girls, similar to what you said i think, and on a conscious level I felt like I yearned for a girlfriend and love and sex. I can look back on my life now and realize that on a subconsious level I for the most part avoided girls[/quote]

I don't think I've avoid girls, as much as I've avoided rejection.

[quote=mmawizard]I think weed can actually be a gateway to your subconscious mind[/quote]

Yeah? I think it distorts your sense of reality too. Certainly, it makes thing seem more pleasurable. As this site shows, "taboo" or "kinky" things are naturally arousing due to neurological chemicals in the brain. Add Marijuana and it's even more powerful. And you know what? When I was smoking it heavily, I was paranoid that cops were hiding in trees and were going to jump out at me like ninjas. Were they? No.

[quote=mmawizard]I now realize the emotional attraction to boys(as in having a close best friend) [/quote]

This doesn't make much sense to me. Wanting to have a close best friend is pretty natural to any man and is a different kind of emotional attraction from the homosexual kind, that isn't wanting a "best friend" but a romantic companion.

[quote=mmawizard]I can still get off to chick porn, I just objectify and over sexualize their body parts, women have sexy bodies its like a fetish for me[/quote]

Hmmmm...I never heard a gay man say such a thing. If you, as a gay man, can do that with women. Then you must agree a straight man can do the same with other men in porn?

[quote=mmawizard]Being straight means you can on a romantic level, relate to, connect with and love someone of the oppossite sex, and see them as a whole person not a sexual object[/quote]

I've known this all along, but the last bit is a bit strange. Are you telling me gay people dehumanize the opposite sex and don't see them as a "whole person"? By this definition, a lot of straight men would be gay. Since so many reduce women to terms like "pussy", "ass". (I got to get some ___ tonight).

The jist of what you are saying is that, just because a person sexualizes any gender (male of female) or masturbates to gay or straight porn, it really says nothing about their Sexual Orientation. If so, I agree and there are all kinds of factors as to why (this sites explains the scientific reasons, not so much the psychological). If you read all my old posts carefully, you'd see this is where my problem stems from....since I have yet to grip my pillow at night and pretend it's another man, or want a back massage from a guy.

[quote=mmawizard]Just look into the the repression thing, its super powerfull, I mean it was SOOOOO deeply repressed for me[/quote]

OK, I've confessed to masturbating to gay porn. I've been open about cyber sex with other men, crossdressers, transvestites and transsexuals. I've dug deep into my past to try and find any clues. I've been opened about an anonymous sexual encounter with a person of the same gender and have been opened about thinking of doing it again (even though a part of me says I shouldn't).

I've studied images of men and woman back and forth. I've tried to picture myself in romantic/emotional relationships with other males. Been on gay forums, been in gay chat rooms. Sought the help of gay psychotherapists, as well as straight.

I don't think I am repressing anything. Repression would be me trying to bury all of this and ignore it. I'm obviously not doing that.

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