Intro and question on book

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Hi, this is my first post. I don't see how to set up a blog, If I get one of those I may give some more background. I am about halfway through the book (bought it after lots of lurking on this site, reading the book, and watching Marnia and her husband's videos).

The book so far is great but as a single guy I can't help but think that karezza is only for people who are already in committed relationships. I personally, want to take my "new life" slowly and not jump into a serious relationship. I am very much into the benefits of not coming into orgasm, and not watching porn, but I am not interested in the first girl I am attracted to (and don't know well) becoming my life-long mate, which karezza seems to suggest you have to. All the benefits in the book sound absolutely great but I'm not sure how practical it is for people who aren't already committed to each other.

For people who are just getting to know each other, I can't imagine HAVING to be with each other, every night, for three weeks in a row, and if you skip time in-between you aren't bonding correctly.

I guess I am looking maybe for a single man's perspective on this, maybe in a blog, but probably Marnia too as she is the author of the book. How the hell does this apply to a single guy... and what if you were dating more than one woman at a time? This doesn't seem to allow for that.

Other than that, I love the site, and the book is fascinating so far.

Welcome!

I've enabled you to blog, if you'd like to.

I'll answer what I can for you because Marnia is currently away from the site most of the day. Actually what you ask is a very pertinent question which I think more people should be asking. I will tell you that a number of men on this site have fairly successfully gotten away from porn/masturbation and found someone to date, only to jump into bed very early into the relationship, which normally ended up leading to orgasmic-type sex, either immediately or after some kind of attempt to avoid it (women on the site have also done the same). Of those relationships, I can't name many that have lasted. It's such ingrained behavior for a lot of people that we've sort of come to expect it as part of a learning process (also quite forgivable), but it's obviously not something Marnia is recommending.

On the other hand, it's not necessarily true that if you attempt the Exchanges with a partner as written, you will end up with that person forever, and I don't think Marnia intended to imply that. There are a lot of outcomes that can happen. Hopefully at least the experience will be positive for both.

From here on this is just my personal opinion or speculation, but I think that when Marnia wrote these things, she wasn't necessarily thinking about normal dating logistics. She's a fan of the I Ching, so I think in her mind, if that said it was a good idea to go forward with a particular person, and that person agreed to try the Exchanges, she was content with that. Of course, that's not how most of us make dating decisions.

To give purely my own opinion, I think there's nothing wrong with *dating* multiple people. It's when you get physically/sexually involved with multiple people that things get complicated. But that is the insidious thing. If you're dating multiple people in order to really get to know them and find out who shares your values, etc., rather than to get laid, then eventually you'll find someone compatible and you'll be done dating. But people tend to get into a loop of serial dating, both because of the novelty of new partners, and the incompatibilities that keep coming up because of their reckless use of sex. You can also become endlessly picky about partners to the point where it just becomes an excuse. So some degree of balance is called for.

Possibly the most important point to bring up is that if you're wanting a smooth transition into karezza, you should introduce the ideas on this site to a potential partner *before* anything much physical happens, and while you can still back out gracefully if the ideas don't appeal to them. I don't think there's any reason you need to rush into trying the Exchanges with anyone, but like I said, *if you want things to go smoothly,* you should steer clear of hot foreplay and the like in the mean time.

In the end, the Exchanges are just one way to provide structure in order to help people learn how to use bonding behaviors instead of hot sex to connect. For some people it's important to have some kind of structure, but there's nothing magical about how they're put together.

Does that help?

Thanks Amari for that

Thanks Amari for that response. As I was reading the book in the back of my head I was sort of imagining the scenario you described, bringing this up with a girl before things got too hot and heavy. Which I am fine with. It just seems like an awfully major commitment, the logistics of being with the same person that you don't know well, day in and day out, for three weeks... I just don't see how that is going to happen. Which in itself isn't a problem, but it is a problem if the benefits of karezza only come from consistent daily, physical contact.

On the flipside it's also true what you say about things getting complicated with dating multiple people, and most likely from the results of orgasm. So for me this is like swallowing the blue pill in the matrix movie, I'm not even sure if I'm able of thinking in the way this book describes yet. It is just so different from everything I've grown up to believe of how sex is "supposed" to be. That and getting rid of certain foreplay techniques... that is a tough one. I like that stuff, lol.

It's just going to take some time for me to wrap my mind around these concepts. They make intuitive sense but at the same time, it feels like an inconvenience, and a loss. Even though the benefits are so great.

Oh well, no hurry to figure it all out I suppose. Thanks for your take on this.

Commitment

Just to clarify, the Exchanges don't call for being with someone all the time for three weeks, just spending most nights together over that period. If you're used to casual dating, a 3-week commitment can sound big, but in the greater context of life it's really nothing at all.

Of course, if you decided to try this with someone you didn't know well, you would of necessity get to know them pretty quickly! I personally would want to know someone pretty well before trying that, but some people are eager to get started.

Glad you're enjoying the book!

Oh yeah

I just wanted to add again how great I think the book is (I'm on Chapter 8 now), and how it's so much more than what you would believe it to be, I have learned so much about the way my brain works, about addiction, evolutionary psychology, the history of sexual attitudes throughout time, wow. I kind of feel like I've discovered a big secret mystery of how the world works, and it's going to be really hard to look at human relationships (and the relationship I have with my own feelings about life) the same way after this.

Hi

Just read this exchange. Welcome.

The three weeks of Exchanges are just for those who like structure.

Iin more casual relationships you can apply the bonding behaviors (Chapter 7) just to test their effects. They don't have to be combined with intercourse to "work."

Glad you are enjoying the book...and yes, it *is* a totally different way of looking at things. If you're like me...you'll go back and forth a bit as you learn. Hopefully your learning curve will be a bit shorter than mine. Wink

I'll add your remarks to "readers' comments."