Bliss, John Welwood, and Onions

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Ya know, I said this before, as I started on this path a year ago, I want to be a more loving man. Porn and my quest for orgasm did not fit into the new picture. You may remember, too, that I found Marnia and my Reuniting brothers and sisters whilst seeking a way to increase my wife's libido. I also spoke of peeling the onion. First layer of foolishness, get rid of the addiction so I can see clearly. Second layer, her libido is not the problem. I wanted to be a more loving man so my wife would show more affection towards me. Third layer, changing my wife is not a worthy goal. Fourth layer, if my wife is not the sole supplier of my happiness, how will I make myself happy?
My initial objection to the movie "Bliss" was that the problem in the marriage was that the woman was flawed. Then I didn't like that the man wanted to fix her because his ego was hurt. Then I really didn't like it when the man's teacher said the man needed to fix himself. That really bothered me.
I was sick with intestinal flu and totally within myself. The Sun Which I Orbit Around was on my periphery, completely absent from my center.
Then I pick up John Welwood's "Journey of the Heart" and am inspired to see those things that bother me as my soul reaching out for healing. That may, or may not, involve my Isadora's touch. It will certainly include more conversation with her.
My first issue is, "Why do I need more affection?" An error, that I brought to my study here, was that I am a mammal and deserve it. The second error was that my wife didn't want to give it to me (for a wide variety of reasons). There are many more errors in my thinking that I needn't go into in this post. My plan of attack is to improve my meditation practice and see what comes up about that issue. And, inspired by Dr. Welwood, see any problem as a direction for study.
[quote John Welwood]Chapter 2 "Warrior of the Heart"
As our love for another person brings our heart into contact with our karma, stirring up feelings of uncertainty, confusion, fear, or vulnerability, it reveals a certain rawness at the core of our experience. Normally we try to manage and manipulate our lives to avoid this feeling, which seems to threaten our security or our identity. Yet this rawness is central to our humanity...[/quote]and healing.
Jacking-off was a way to cover that rawness and wanting my wife to touch me, as in the poem http://www.reuniting.info/node/3138, was a way to avoid looking to my own development.
Much love to you all

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I keep reading this over and over

[quote=Aphrodites Chela]
[quote John Welwood]Chapter 2 "Warrior of the Heart"
As our love for another person brings our heart into contact with our karma, stirring up feelings of uncertainty, confusion, fear, or vulnerability, it reveals a certain rawness at the core of our experience. Normally we try to manage and manipulate our lives to avoid this feeling, which seems to threaten our security or our identity. Yet this rawness is central to our humanity...[/quote]and healing.

Yeah

Me too. I am studying his book, reading paragraph's over and over. It's not a quick read for me.

Normally we try to manage and manipulate our wives....
manage and manipulate our lives

Let us all find peace so we may know wisdom

PIDA

Thanks Poet for PIDA http://www.reuniting.info/node/3141
Read in bed together last night. In my Isadora's bed I read Cupid's PA. Today lots of loving contact with our Grand Baby (she just started clapping, everyone is very proud), our daugther, and son-in-law.
An hour or so after they left, Izzy just busted loose with a nice little hug. I think we were all well fed this day. When I asked for a 10 minute Exchange, she made such a face that I bargained down to 5 minute yab-yum. A few minutes after her reluctant agreement, I easily forgave her her promise. The promise was not joyfully given and I am not in need....but tomorrow.....
I'm starting to get it. If I can create and hold loving space (different than grabbing love) there is more room for PIDA's. BUT don't we need to practice? 5-20 minutes/day?
A note on clarity: Yesterday I put my head in her lap and asked her to stroke it. She was williing enough, my timing and read of the situation was good. I didn't like the way she touched me. I felt it recently with a back rub. I don't think she's holding back (can't be sure). I saw that she didn't touch me when we had sex. 35 years and I'm just seeing this, fucking amazing!

Yes, BUT

You're never going to get 5-20 minutes from her by telling her that you need it, are you?

Maybe your task is to observe what gives the best results and go with that.

Amari you are wonderful

and so in tune.
[quote]You're never going to get 5-20 minutes from her by telling her that you need it, are you?[/quote]Every now and then (blue moon?) if I really guilt trip her and she's feeling merciful. "we need it" hasn't worked very well either.
"Observe" is the word. Whacking-off did make this man blind (no hairy palms). Now that I can see, I'm really excited to find out who we are together.
It's hard for me to hold back, but there sure seems to be some benefits from holding the space. Nothing wrong with heavy lifting, it'll make me stronger.
Wishing you and your's all the best

Cook For Her

No idea if this will work for everyone, but try using cooking as your way to say you need her. Napkins, table cloth, candles, wine, the works!

P.

A question~

As I've come to read some of the beautiful blogs on this site, it seems that perhaps habituation has not affected the male halves of some of these couples?

There seem to be several men here who are very desirous of their wives and are wanting to use the bonding behaviors to see if their wives will reciprocate--

Is this the way it usually goes, do you think?

rediscovered

"Usually"

"Usually" is such a difficult and ultimately futile thing to grab on to. I gave up on "normal" too.

Ask this - it seems to be working for him. Will it work for me?

This site seems to attract men. I put that down to Marnia's generous and overflowing spirit. :) On other sites I frequent, I hear the opposite complaint. For example, one exasperated woman said to me that her husband's idea of spending an evening together was for her to sit beside him on the couch watching TV. In that case, she was the one who wanted to re-ignite the relationship. I think both genders are affected, although perhaps men gravitate to the internet while women have their own networks.

In my own case, I would have to say that BOTH of us want to make it better. Our perceptions of how to fix the problem are different. I would hate for anyone to come away from reading my blog with the impression that I am the white knight and my wife the fiery dragon, or that I was the only one doing anything to fix our relationship. I can say, however, that physical touch seemed to be more important to me than her, at least in our perception of what the problem was.

P.

Thank you, Poet~

I understand what you are saying and please know I was not trying place blame on one spouse or the other--my interest was more in the idea that some of the male spouses here do not seem affected by habituation and I guess I'm wondering how often it affects one spouse and not the other?

Another site I visit is one that involves menopausal women and many of them are not interested in a physical relationship with their husbands at all--and the reason given is hormonal (not enough testosterone).

I'm thinking I should probably explore around and see if the topic of women/hormones/etc. has already been discussed here!

rediscovered

Not just habituation

I think what you're seeing with some of these women isn't habituation so much as it is instinctive defensiveness. If your partner has been doing porn and lying to you about it (or not) or engaging in hungry-type sexual behavior towards you, that can cause you to be uninterested in or untrusting of him totally aside from any habituation.

Amen

[quote=Amari]I think what you're seeing with some of these women isn't habituation so much as it is instinctive defensiveness. If your partner has been...engaging in hungry-type sexual behavior towards you, that can cause you to be uninterested in or untrusting of him totally aside from any habituation.[/quote]
Amen!

My thought is

that conventional sex simply puts couples out of sync...one way or the other...over time. It sometimes seems like those who have higher libidos choose those who will "put the brakes on them" without realizing that they are doing so. But as Amari points out, you'd really have to watch the whole dynamic from the beginning before assigning roles.

In any case, I think it would be odd for husbands whose wives are chasing them around the bedroom too much to go poking around on this site, wouldn't you? Even though it could be comforting to them if they did.

Let's Go!

Let us go
let go

OK, here's my plan: Stop obsessing about what I want, what I don't have, and what I've got to do with this woman in my life. If I am alone, I will not think about "The Relationship". If I do, it will be with the clear intent of communicating my thoughts. If I do not intend to post or talk to my Izzy about it, I will change them to positive thoughts or drop them. I will curtail all perseveration. If she is present and there is a problem, we'll deal with it. I will stop making problems up.
Thank you, Sapphire
http://www.reuniting.info/node/3178

Obsession

Winter fog rises up the gulley, misting oaks
I think of my wife
Old trees emerge from the grey as I passby at 60 MPH
I think of my wife
The road rises and I am thrust into brillient day
I think of my wife

Imaginary conversations that go nowhere
With all these plans how can I ever be genuine?

Thanks to my new clarity, I catch a thousand such thoughts today

2 months

since my last orgasm...13 days for my wife.
Can I give this up too? My craving for her to desire me? My wanting more intimacy?
Can I enjoy the touch of children and friends? her chaste touch?
And let that be enough?
Perhaps
For the first time in my life I can say that
Perhaps

Remember I was going to be her teacher?
Last week we laid abed. I asked her to touch me. She said, "I am". I was so caught up in my thinking and my need for her to stroke me, that I didn't feel her hand on my arm!
Some yogic master here, eh?
Lesson #1
I will learn to feel her touch

I think you've got it!

It sounds like you are starting to get the hang of enjoying your together time for its own sake and *really* not having sex as the goal.
[quote=Aphrodites Chela]Remember I was going to be her teacher?
Last week we laid abed. I asked her to touch me. She said, "I am". I was so caught up in my thinking and my need for her to stroke me, that I didn't feel her hand on my arm!
Some yogic master here, eh?
Lesson #1
I will learn to feel her touch[/quote]
You could let her know that you noticed and appreciate her touching you by putting your hand on hers, smiling, looking at her lovingly (or closing your eyes in contentment), and sighing happily.

Are you familiar with The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman? According to him, there are five "languages" that people use to express love: Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch. Partners don't necessarily speak the same languages, with the result that what is expressed by one partner might not even be noticed by the other.

There is an online love languages test you can take at http://www.okcupid.com/tests/the-5-love-languages-test

If you and your partner speak different languages, Chapman offers suggestions for learning your partner's language.

Took the Test

Your result for The 5 Love Languages Test ...
"Tell me you love me"

9 Words Of Affirmation, higher than 83% of your peers. Tell me you love me
5 Acts Of Service, higher than 47% of your peers. Do something for me, help me
7 Physical Touch, higher than 44% of your peers. Hug me, kiss me, pat my ass
8 Quality Time, higher than 14% of your peers. Let's do something together
0 Gifts, higher than 3% of your peers. What are you gonna give me?

Only a slight problem that you gotta sign up for their thing (okCupid)

No need to sign up

It will still let you take the test and give you your results if you don't sign up.

On the other hand, you can also take similar tests at http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/

I got 12 Physical Touch, 8 Quality Time, 7 Words Of Affirmation, 0 Gifts, and 3 Acts Of Service. My wife would probably score high on Gifts, Acts of Service, and Quality Time, and score low on Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation. Hmmm, I wonder if that could explain some of the difficulties between us? Even the shared high Quality Time score doesn't help if our time together isn't of good quality.

Yesterday

I asked for 5 minutes of holding, karezza or tantra....RESISTANCE....big time. I was trying to be cool, you know, it's good for us mammals, get the oxy flowing, blah, blah, blah. But old limbic lizard is awake and smells a rat. OK, I left her bed feeling hurt at her lack of response, AND I was a little sad that she didn't want to talk about The Relationship. Can't fool Lizzy. Yet she consents and the the puppy jumps into her lap, but no way 5 minutes....1 minute tops.

The sword of Kali is sharp and her fire burns. Kali burn away this stupid idea that I need her to fix me.

The rest of the day I'm trying to be cool but am out of sorts. Visited The One Who Blesses Us All but when we returned home I just vegged out on TV....THE WHOLE REST OF THE EVENING! ("Jezebel" with Bette Davis) way fucked up....only superficial connection with Izzy Lizzy.

I go to her bed (Current Karezza Curriculum: Get In her bed....read, cuddle, talk...whatever....but no agenda, zip, zero, nada) and did the CKC ok....read a little LaoTsu on dual cultivation from CP's Arrow out loud to her...let it go. She's reading Lonnie Barbach fem porn "Pleasures: Women Write Erotica" left over from when I was (was?) trying to increase her libido. Pretty good book, if you're into that sort of thing. I chuckled at the irony....

This Morning she invites me to her bed!!!! My Pavlovian Mistress is really jerking my chain....nothing like random re-enforcement to keep my own lizard alive....and kicking. But Let me tell you, The Invitation made all the difference in the world. As usual she was completely passive "I want to go back to sleep" and I was hard. We spooned, I caressed her, she made the smallest of moves of invitation (3-4 in 10 minutes). I matched her breath and did some wave brathing. I energetically supported her 2nd and 6th chakras (just seemed right), did a little sexy, still, hot, hand on her bum, and left at the right time. Now this is good stuff. I am full and the day is bright.
Wishing Light to us all

You are

an amazing man. I love the "Izzy Lizzy" moniker. And yes, it is ironic about the fem porn. *giggle*

It saddens me how both hot sex and no sex can completely distort women's perceptions of the treasure that lies in their partners. True of men, too, of course, yet this distorted perception is particularly pitiful in women because we PRIDE ourselves on the clarity of our intuition!

Yeah, okay, so we all (both sexes) need to tweak our habits a bit to rediscover the keys to a sustainable affection, but the raw materials on both sides are solid gold. And we so easily lose sight of each other's true value.

Here's a paragraph from a private message a forum member shared. It's from a very esoteric book, which even goes over my head. Smile It's kind of inspiring, though.

"The subtler aspects of sex appear to be entirely lost to the Western world. It must suffice to point out that all the more important aspects of sex are etheric and magnetic. We might liken it to an iceberg, five-sixths of whose bulk is below the surface. The actual physical reactions of sex form a very small proportion, and by no means the most vital portion of its functioning. It is owing to our ignorance of this that so many marriages fail to fulfill the purpose of the welding of two halves into a perfect whole."

More excerpts: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/sources/metaphysical#dion

*sigh*

It scares me how good I feel today.
Get my head straight, get an invitation, a little unopposed touch, and all is well in the world.
It frightens me because there is Nothing Else in my life that makes me feel this good.

She's counting the number of times I bring up The Relationship.
I'm commenting on how good I feel. I'm letting her hear my humming and see my smiles too.
Much love