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Are there any herbs that helps the brain/body chemistry to recover after years of exessive masturbation/porn and stress?

Adaptogenic herbs like

Adaptogenic herbs like ginseng, ashwaganda root and licorice root can help, as will enough Vitamin C, Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B-5) and salt in your diet. All those substances go a long way in healing the adrenal glands, which can become very depleted when someone is under alot of stress.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you }:)

Fenugreek Seed

Marnia mentioned in her book that some men use Fenugreek seed to balance the prolactin after orgasm. It's the chemical that rises, whereas the dopamine falls.
I practice acupuncture, there are some GREAT balancing techniques an acupuncturist can do for you.
Joni

Fenugreek

Actually, I put a quotation in my book that a man shared with me:

After ejaculating I experience clouded thinking, lack of interest in
things I love (including people), fatigue, difficulties sleeping, and short
attention span. The symptoms go away slowly after a week. Seeking
relief, I took fenugreek [an herb that either encourages production
of prolactin, or imitates it].My symptoms disappeared, but my orgasm
was not insanely intense like usual. Maybe people who experience
severe symptoms have stronger orgasms. If so, orgasm could be
compared to drugs or alcohol. The more intense the rush/high/orgasm,
the worse the recovery/low. Incidentally, I’ve gone eleven months without
ejaculating. I felt terrific!—Duncan

But when we looked up fenugreek, it seems to be used as a pro-lactation herb, and Lord knows what it would do to men long-term. So better not overdo that one without checking with an expert.

I put the quotation in my book because I was making the point that prolactin likely plays a role in snuffing desire/ suppressing dopamine (and is probably an aspect of the neurochemical hangover after orgasm).

I've found that

a herbal tea made with half hops, half skullcap blended together is soothing for a recovering O addict. Both are natural 'anaphrodisiacs' (they act to lower libido). Don't have it too strong, it's bitter like beer. Unless you actually like the taste of beer, in which case you should find it even more soothing than I do Wink

Green tea...

seems to have helped me...a good quality green tea at regular intervals seem to help with the withdrawals too....I have been drinking a japanese green tea (Costco's Signature brand, the one with a bit of mancha in the pouch too)...but perhaps any decent variety would do the trick too...highly recommended ..

Be safe..
Reggie

Its all balance and your

Its all balance and your losing it whats happening is your bodies producing new cells and using nutrients etc in production its like growing and it takes a toll on the body and your then expending it.

Its kind of messed up if you think about it i mean i think theres only a few other species that have sex for pleasure..... it sounds stupid but its probably because people dont have much to do anyway i mean who came up with smoking its stupid but hey weve tried it and we found out it that its damaging to our health but chemicals have an effect and you get attached to it and then you have a never ending cycle.

Its not possible for every single person in the world to have an equal purpose why else would there be fighting for the right to live or poverty

the basic thing i was saying was humans expend everything and use more than than needed and destroy things in doing so.

i go way off but im an idiot too because i masturbate watch porn and fuck for no reason but the temporary feeling i get and thats what people ever do.
I can watch and feel how pathetic people are second.

Thanks for

splitting up your ideas. It's much easier to understand them.

I don't think people are idiots, although I think they can definitely do a good imitation of them. Wink The interesting thing is how much clearer and productive and happier they are when they take the actions (and avoid other actions) that improve the balance of their brains.

You may be right that nutrient depletion also plays a role, but we suspect the brain changes are the ones that really mess with judgment, produce feelings of anxiety, and cause fuzzy thinking. See http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain

You're right that our mating urges are powerful forces. It pays to understand how they drive us and what our options are. They can also escalate when we overstimulate ourselves (due to the lows that follow, which "scream" for more stimulation).

I find it exciting that for thousands of years people have stumbled upon the solution of using sex carefully. Maybe this only becomes necessary when life offers enough leisure and resources for excess to be a problem. In any case, it's a problem now. Smile

What is your goal? Are you going to stop p/m/o for a few weeks just to see how you feel?

With herbs and suppliments I have

found that these help:

- Relora (from Source Naturals): claims to help counter rising cortisol levels. reduced anxiety in myself. I found that those that have issues post orgasm have found this to be helpful (on the top of their list).
- B complex, probably from Jarrow (they seem to have good stuff)
- SAMe from Jarrow, but only in small doses (1/4 of a 200mg pill once a day for me) because it accumulates in your brain.
- 5HTP which may help increase serotonin which tends to decrease libido and ease anxiety.

check out the net for stories and http://www.raysahelian.com/ is a good site.

Yes it must be seen you the

Yes it must be seen you the body is made up of what it consumes. What i know for another is people have been looking at growth and asking abundant questions and why some people are tall, short or even obese or lean. I found an article with grown people asking why dutch people are relatively taller than others as their average size is greater than anywhere else, they dont think they found the answer even now and the post expired well its very simple. The dutch werent always bigger its quite recent they reached the average height for an adult male to be 6"1 and the very sense is that alot of the people there now were not related to the first peoples there and this is the very same all over people move around. What has done this is The change in status more becoming wealthy and a more abundance in consuming milk products for the dutch and better hygiene was the biggest things along with riding bicycles and climbing stairs was common there. What im saying is these are environmental and it even comes down the the very mineral content in the soil in producing grains etc but to social interactions. I thought i was laying some insight but its hard to keep a a steady thought anyway its day 3 i believe or its 2 still im thinking its Feb. 7. i began abstaining in my effort to change. It seems harder than you know my blood pressure started to rise and fall with changes in hormonal levels in the blood like epinephrine i went to check things out at pharmacy to keep things going smoothly changing my diet is hard because how insensitive i became however things are fine interacting with people, love the girls but im not interested in going into that right now working out things as is. But sure when im ready ill get out there again, i can still see how amazing some people have been tho I havent supported them.

It's fun

to see the subtle changes in both how one feels, and how one perceives the world, and especially other people. To me it becomes obvious why various past traditions viewed this practice as a spiritual practice. My hope is that with a partner, it becomes even easier to sustain clear(er) perception. That has been our experience.

Dopamine

I avoid talking about supplements because I am no doctor, and everyone's needs are unique. However, some are helped by certain supplements, and even drugs. Three dopamine related supplements are below.

This first product has some good science behind it. It's used for memory enhancement, brain regeneration after injury, and may reduce cravings. it may also increase dopamine receptor density. It is expensive. Two links provided.
CDP-Choline, or brand name, Cognizin® Citicoline
http://challengeyourbrain.org/article-appetite-supression.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicoline

L-Tyrosine: The essential amino acid that is the precursor for dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine. The brain converts it to doapmine. Some suggest it may be helpful for low dopamine conditions. Not a lot of science to confirm. Relatively inexpensive.

Mucuna Pruriens (velvet bean): This bean/pod contains L-Dopa, the immediate precursor of dopamine. L-Dopa is a drug. It was the first treatment for Parkinson's disease. In theory this would increase dopamine. I don't think it would stimulate regeneration. I have to wonder what would occur with continuous use - would it decrease normal production of dopamine? Relatively expensive. Below are 2 links.
http://www.raysahelian.com/mucunapruriens.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucuna_pruriens

2 products I drink

this has Choline in it
http://www.nakedjuice.com/#OurJuices/Background/MainMenu/Families/Superf...
this does also
http://www.usana.com/media/File/rev3/rev3_comparison.pdf
I also just started on Friday taking a multivitamin pak by this same company that also has Choline in it.

I know I feel better after drinking these. Really do after drinking the Rev3. Only drink one of those every other day. The Acai a couple times a week. I mix in some of the other superfood naked juices and some of these by Bolthouse

http://www.bolthouse.com/juice_main.html

I also just added this product last friday. I will be drinking this on the days I do not drink the Rev3. I drink this on the days I do my strength exercises. It has tyronsine in it and choline

http://www.iherb.com/spiru-tein-whey-high-protein-energy-meal-chocolate-...

I guess

L-Dopa

Gary, I've been wondering of late what the effects are of increasing dopamine, or what would be the expected results?

I'm conducting a bit of an experiment with that. I had some pills with the Mucuna Pruriens in it. After using it for 1 day, I can tell the affects on my brain during masturbation to be different, and my mental state to be affected. One, I felt initially deader feeling wise than normal. And when the feeling did kick in, it felt different. The pleasure didn't seem as gentle, or as smooth, but sharper. My mind felt more affected, as if more on a drug. And when I came, I had a crash where usually I simply feel an overall sense of well being and contentment. I had a headache after it was over, though I'd have to say while the pleasure itself wasn't as good as usual, the "high" was more intense, and I felt more of an "addictive" desire. Hard to describe. But I felt weaker than normal afterwards, had to lie down on the bed and rest a bit, get my bearings back.

It made me think that maybe what other people are talking about as the big crash after orgasm is what I experienced, that perhaps my dopamine rise and fall simply isn't as much normally as other people's, and is why I don't notice any big drop or crash right after. Still, even now, my mind feels a little fuzzier than before. So I think for the first time I'm experiencing what everyone else has been talking about in relation to an orgasmic crash.

I thought some of the deadness might be that if the dopamine level is increased, then there is less of a drastic change from the baseline to a high, so the feeling itself isn't as intense. I mean, when I first start masturbating or my wife stimulates me, those are usually some of the strongest shots of feeling, and spread through my legs. But with the increase in dopamine, it's already higher than normal so I don't get as big a shift, thus not as much physical pleasure.

And there was two times I seriously thought about stopping, but no sooner did I stop than I had to keep going, the urge felt stronger than normal. That's why I say it felt more addictive.

Anyway, interesting experiment. But I wondered in what ways you would say that increasing dopamine would generally be a good thing. From what I'm experiencing (and my experience may not be the average experience), it seems to have more negatives than positives.

How long did you go without

How long did you go without orgasm ? then have this one. I know when I was having them multiple times a day (I still keep saying but I have no idea how I kept that up feeling the way I do now) I did not really notice the ups and downs. I guess I was always there. Now recently I went a long time without over 4 weeks. I noticed the crash very much. Yeah the feelings spiked. Before I could go hours and hours of masturbation and not go over the edge. After going so long I spiked and did not make it very long. Also that stop and just have to continue yeah that too. I think you describe the feeling well for the way it was for me also after abstaining for awhile.

I guess when you are in the cycle constantly you really do not "see" the effects. Step outside of it awhile then back in and you have no doubts about the effect orgasm has on you.

As is said on here a lot. Every time and everything is a learning experience when it comes to m/p/o. I have learned much about myself.
Also someone on here said if you want to learn much about yourself and how your mind works develop a porn addiction :). Not recommending it just saying :)

Thanks for sharing the experiment.
Be Safe
James

l-dopa

Good observations. I think you are right on in your assesment.

Velvet bean has L-dopa in it. I hinted that it may not be a good option. I don't think its a good idea to supplement L-dopa, unless under the care of a knowledgeable professional. The isolated form of L-Dopa is a prescription drug with lots of listed side effects.
At bottom of page are side-effects of long term use of prescription levels:

The movie "Awakenings" was about L-dopa. It worked for a while on those Parkinson's patients, then stopped working. The main character (played by Robert Deniro, but not shown in the movie version) started grabbing all the nurses, and I think, was masturbating compulsively.

Natural ways to up dopamine: We increase dopamine through any activity that is rewarding- from laughing, to hugging, to exercise, etc.

One supplement that may help - especially as we get older is citicoline. But I only know through reading research, not taking it. It is used for many conditions. Mostly used for enhanced memory.

The question is - why do you feel the need to raise your dopamine?

In our description of the orgasm hangover we focus on dopamine. Although many do CONSCIOUSLY experience a hangover (you just got a sample), most do not. Most experience a hangover as separation from their sexual partner. The need for space, little irritations with them, finding them less appealing, or finding others more appealing, on and on.

We think part of the orgasm hangover is releasing less dopamine when one interracts with their partner. You find the person less rewarding. Your reward centers get less of a jolt from that person. It shows up in many, many ways.

This point so often gets missed: After your orgasm, you still get your usual shot of dopamine from petting your dog, but not same amount from interacting with your partner. We are talking about dopamine release in everyday interactions with your partner.

So increasing overall dopamine may have no affect on the hangover - At least in terms of perception of ones partner.

The side-effects of L-DOPA may include:

Hypotension, especially if the dosage is too high
Arrhythmias, although these are uncommon
Nausea, which is often reduced by taking the drug with food, although protein interferes with drug absorption
Gastrointestinal bleeding
Disturbed respiration, which is not always harmful, and can actually benefit patients with upper airway obstruction
Hair loss
Disorientation and confusion
Extreme emotional states, particularly anxiety, but also excessive libido
Vivid dreams and/or insomnia
Auditory and/or visual hallucinations
Effects on learning; there is some evidence that it improves working memory, while impairing other complex functions
Somnolence and narcolepsy
A condition similar to stimulant psychosis

ps -Dopamine

You were wondering why I was suggesting supplements that may increase dopamine, or dopamine receptors.
It's because all addictions, and excessive orgasms (whatever that is for an individual), cause a chronic low levels of dopamine, and probably reduction in dopamine receptors. So that post was aimed toward those who have low dopamine - due to genetics or addictions.

Some people with depression, anxiety, addictions have been helped with supplements.
For example, Jim Carrey suffered from deep depression. He swears by L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP (amino acids - precursors to dopamine and serotonin).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/celeb_interviews/ar...

So I was just throwing out some possibilities for those who might benefit.

They key is balance of neurotransmitters. Bonding behaviors, exercise, psychotherapy, and Karezza, all play a role.

Thanks, Cole

I guess I'm a Daoist at heart. I really think we're better off choosing the behaviors that help balance (or as the Daoists said "nourish") the brain, rather than trying to guess what supplements might ease withdrawal symptoms. Maybe in extreme cases of chronic low dopamine brought on by years of over-stimulation, a temporary supplement can help, but it's a crutch. It still has to be thrown away at some point, which means some period of uncomfortable withdrawal is still going to be needed in the future. (Gary, by the way, doesn't take any of those dopamine supplements, although he just said he may experiment with citicoline, because research shows it protects the brain against aging effects.)

In any case, your experience was interesting. It shows that there are definitely symptoms connected with orgasm and recovery, which are tied to our neurochemistry. So it makes sense to focus on that, if we humans are going to understand orgasm better (and its effects on our mood, perception and relationships).

It looks like you accomplished chemically what many accomplish with extreme porn use. That is, by slamming down the "dopamine accelerator," you also experienced more noticeable after effects. That (dopamine high-low) is exactly the problem that karezza is designed to ease. Bonding behaviors offer balance, and so does gentle intercourse without going for orgasm.

Obviously, people will choose their own mix of these two tactics. Again, we find consistency in avoiding orgasm quite satisfactory, so we think it's worth experimenting with for three weeks.

I don't think you had really cut back that much on orgasm frequency from the posts I read. However, it's also true that as the brain becomes more sensitive (as, for example, after a porn user stops using), he seems to feel the highs and lows more when he goes back to orgasm. This makes sense, but it can be disconcerting. (It has also been noticed with other addictions, by the way. It's called the "abstinence-violation effect.")

The upside of that increased sensitivity is that the recovering person also has stronger erections and more interest in life, potential partners, etc.

Frequency

To answer that question, yes, I'm still having an orgasm a day, there abouts. So that would of course play into it. And still no porn as well. 9 days off that.

Thanks for the input.

I was mostly doing this as an experiment. No long term use planned here. I went through a phase of several years using supplements, of various kinds. Some helped things more than others, but I finally decided I needed to be off of them for a while to make sure my body would return to a balance. I originally started taking them back in early 2000, in part due to the difficult of staying hard during sex. And on that front, it has been years since I've had that problem. So I guess in that regard, my system was "rebooted." I guess I've always been afraid that if I quit using them, the problem would return. It has been almost a year since I did use any, and sexual functions have been overall as one would expect. And generally good. So I've had no reason to return to them.

But this dopamine thing got me to thinking, and I knew I had some leftover of this one supplement that contained the Mac. Pum. So decided to try and experiment to see what the effects would be. It has a couple of other herbs in it as well, so how much of the effects are from the rise in dopamine and how much from the other stuff would be difficult to separate. I guess if I wanted to run this right, I would have bought some velvet bean only.

Anyway, interesting experiment.

Guys,

If any of the rest of you get good results with any herbs/supplements, please post here. I'll create a wiki one of these days. This question comes up fairly regularly.

Herbs and Libido Control

Hello Marnia,

Several herbs have been shown to lower male libido.

Namely: Vitex (Chasteberry), Hops, Valerian, Skullcap, Black Cohosh, Licorice and Reishi Mushroom. These herbs are in the "antiandrogen" category. Prolonged use will lower libido.

My question is will a lowered libido--and thus less frequent ejaculation--still lead to the benefits associated with Karezza?

In other words, can a male use these herbs to help him to attain an ejaculation-free sex life?

David

Herbs

The first thing one have to do if you what to reduce desire is to not drink so much coffee as it raises dopamine and makes you horny.
There are a few herbs that can help, not only to reduce desire but also to have sex for longer time without getting to exited.

Turmeric: is a mao-a inhibitor that raises serotonin levels.
Saffron: is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
Sceletium tortuosun: another serotonin reuptake inhibitor (more strong than the to others).

Booth are very helpful for those who are going to try Karezza/tantra for the first time as it is easier to learn this new type of lovemaking if you do not get overexcited. When this is learned one can drop the herbs, but there are a lot of other health benefits from this herbs, just google them.