Buddha Mama

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I am a week short of 3 months sin orgasm
The last 2 weekends I have gone to my Izzy's bed...no excuses about getting up early in the morning. Friday night I was congratulating myself on my advanced selflessness.....ah hubris.... As usual I am the cuddler and she the cuddlee and I am always hard when I'm close to her. Saturday morning I'm all about hugs and pats on the ass. Seems ok, her responses a touch more than tolerant. In the shower I ask for a soapy, slippery rub. She quickly runs her hands on me, if it took a second I'd be amazed. I lost it, I'm like back to 3 days post orgasm, hurt and needy. I say, "Why don't you like to touch me?" Trying to be all like I want information....her bullshit alarm is FUNCTIONAL.
Remember I was going to be her teacher?....HA! She nails me later, "Why are you always in your head? It creates so many problems. Just be present." I was, as the Christians say, convicted. I started practicing being simply present and checked my head tripping. My mind is good for analysis and planning but there are times and places for those activities and I propose to be discriminating about doing it. In the shower, I wash, not think about what I'm going to write to you all. When I get here I will write or go and make a note, but not think about it in the shower. By the time I brushed my teeth I was out of my funk, 3 hours not 3 days, thanks to my sobriety.
God, the onion keeps peeling....
No O, No porn, Remove her from my center, No obsessing on the relationship, No head tripping
Yes to sobriety, Yes to spontaneity, Yes to being simply present
Blessings on us all

Comments

AC,

I'm always inspired by your level of awareness within real-ationship. Sometimes I feel for you a bit, though. I mean...you and Izzy are married, yes? And though I understand the spiritual value of 'removing neediness', I wonder sometimes, relationships are a two-way street aren't they? Would it be fair to say that there should be more reciprocation here (from her back to you)? After all, if you had wanted to be a monk, you would have joined a monastery. Wink

Wishing you the best, and just seeking some understanding, since I might also one day be in relationship - hopefully the 'real' type -
River. :)

Thats what it is you just

Thats what it is you just gotta stay in the moment no thinking of what to write to us lol, no more neediness sounds good. Your awesome nonethelesss you sound brilliant and i wish more bubbly rub downs aswell =P

River, im sure you will experience a real relationship the real deal you could bookmark this article in your mind Chela is doing very well for himself

Thanks Folks

We are married 32 years. My Izzy is post menopausal and claims no interest in sex. Yesterday she said she is a long time without orgasm, and if it hadn't been for our agreement, she would masturbate, "It's so much easier."
Any expectation of "reciprocation" is a slippery slope...it easily goes to resentment, "she owes me", and "should I ditch the bitch?" (sometimes going for the rhyme is really fucked up). All without the "help" of orgasm.
[quote PM]I know it is a good thing to have control of your thoughts. On the other hand, I don't really think it's a good thing to let your wife convince you that you have a problem because you want her to touch you. There's nothing wrong with you that I can see, other than being human. Also, mutual affection in marriage is a reasonable expectation, and you can try to understand her reluctance without losing sight of that. Keeping sane is important [/quote]It's not the touching she thinks is my problem. Simply, it frequently bothers her (much better these last 2 months). My head tripping is what she thinks is my problem. Time to check it out, won't hurt.
My mind is also good for fantasy. If my thoughts don't bring a smile that starts in my heart before coming to my face, I don't need it. I believe this is the important next step in my spiritual growth.
For a lot of our years together the message my Isadora has heard from me, over and over again, is, "You're not giving enough, you are not enough for me." I've got to work my program and not worry about hers right now. Got to get my act together and give her some space to see what develops.
I really do wish I understood her reluctance to be intimate. For now, I'm looking at how my thinking is keeping us apart. We've put a lot of time into this and I can give it some more. This path is still new to me.
*sigh*

Dear Friend - I've noticed a

Dear Friend -

I've noticed a definite change in her behavior at least as you've described it recently. I think she's slowly thawing out. You say, "I really do wish I understood her reluctance to be intimate." That's really funny after your years of porn use. Now you expect her to be intimate?

I like your Isadora. She seems very grounded, and a tough cookie (she's gotta be for putting up with the porn use). She seems a good match for you in many ways.

You know how they say in Craniosacral Therapy that even the fluids can have adhesions and imprints? I think people get emotionally calcified too. Calcified from imprints.

I read recently that man is the vibration, woman matter. We women express man's vibration through our embodiment as matter as we interact with men. If the vibration from the man is of poor quality, the woman will be filled with negative imprints. The work becomes: for the man, taking responsibility for the integrity of all actions; for the woman, becoming larger than imprints, realizing that we are not our imprints, discerning which imprints we are and are not willing to take on, and relishing and absorbing the imprints that are full of love and devotion.

Tune into yourself and the quality of your vibration, the intention behind each act. I think you're right on to heed Isadora's advice to be more present. If the intention is always to be present, she will detect this, and her radar that is used to scanning you for the integrity of your vibration will eventually relax as she realizes the quality of your presence. And maybe being present right now will just mean being present with and coming to peace with the force of the old imprints in the matter that is her, many of which you are responsible for but which she has also amplified.

Damn!

you just busted me up side the head :O

And so it is....shall we call you One Who Sees Clearly, Teller of the Truth.
I like checking the integrity of my vibes...sometimes they are clear and powerful, sometimes muddy and incomprehensible

With gratitude and love, I wish you all blessings

How did you find that man of yours and where are you living?

I hope my post didn't sound

I hope my post didn't sound harsh. You're a wonderful man, Aphrodites. It was really great meeting you in person.

That man found me in a cafe. I had come there to work on my long-neglected writings. He made eye contact and said hi and I did the same, then promptly went back to my work. "Cute guy = distraction." Needless to say he suceeded in distracting me, all the way to the Columbia River Gorge, where we now live on a land trust three months later. But I guess you can't really say that fate or finding your purpose and love is a distraction. And I'm still writing.

Nah...Not So Harsh

You know that moment when the Truth hits? hard like a 2X4?
Or (you've been in the city) it's like when you're walking down the street with a friend
talking
you move close to avoid a pole
then take the space back once passed
then, Whack! you are sliced by the guy wire for lack of attention
You just gotta say, "Where the fuck have I been?"
That was the feeling I had when you spoke about the porn use. Not any harshness, just the power of the truth.
You write beautifully, with intelligence and insight. I am so happy you are in a place that you wanted to be.
Some kids, married in their 30's a couple of children, moved from here, to up the mountain outside of Hood River. I can say "kids" 'cause I knew them when they played with our children. Amy's mother is a well known herbalist teacher in our area.
Best Wishes to You and Yours

Yeah, I know about when the

Yeah, I know about when the truth hits hard (taking jungle plant medicine is exactly that - hours of excruciating truth mixed with the most subtle and loving tenderness from the Buddha Mama).

You're great!
Best to You and Yours too!

Excerpts from a Friend

Hi AC, I hope that you are well. You asked about getting Izzy interested, and I thought I ought to answer you in a PM instead of publicly, because as I was reading "Buddah Mama", one thing you said really, really leapt out at me (and please correct me if I have misread or misunderstood what you said or what you meant), and that was when you said that for many years, you told Izzy over and over again that she is not enough for you. If that is true, then Izzy might be suffering from a self-esteem problem, as well as a great deal of resentment against you for what really is a kind of emotional abuse. I am sorry, AC, to have to say that to you, but that is how I see it, and I owe it to you to be honest with you. If, after I have said what I have said, you still would like to talk to me about this subject (getting Izzy interested) I would be more than happy to continue, so please feel free to PM me any time. But be warned, I will pull no punches with you if you want to go there.

Is your other name Hammer? 'cause you hit that nail on the head. Self esteem is an issue for us all. Izzy, 4th of 5 kids, wants to be seen. I have not said, "You are not good enoough." That's what she says she hears when I say, "I want more affection. I want more sex. I want more intimacy....etc." That's what she hears when I used porn.
She is a very practical woman. She'll give a hug if you're sad, not if I'm needy. A massage for back pain, not because it feels good. Sex for an orgasm, not karezza for bonding. Any demands on her time needs to have a good reason. "We are old and married a long time. I just don't feel that way about you."

First, let me say thank you for clearing up my misconception of the dynamic between Izzy and you! You say that Izzy wants to be seen, so how can you go about "seeing" her? In other words, what, to Izzy constitutes being seen? My husband is very practical, too, and for him "being seen" (for instance) means that I notice when he is tired and give him a back rub without him having to ask, or me asking if he wants one. He wants me literally to see him. For him, being seen is about my recognizing his dependency needs and meeting them without his having to state them. Because he is such a rock, it is very hard for him to express neediness, so I have to use my empathy to see into him and give him what he wants but cannot ask for.
So I don't know if that is of any help for you, but please feel free to ask me anything you want, for clarification or whatever.
p.s. Please also feel free to relate anything and everything I say to you with Izzy, because I am wishing her well, too.

What a challange. We were once in a therapy session doing an exercise of showing different emotions via facial expressions only.....I couldn't read her! I am enjoying the new clarity of not chasing the orgasm tail, but I still have to ask (can be annoying).

If I were talking to Izzy directly, I would say to her..."Try it, Izzy...you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and AC really, really wants to try it, so what do you say? Give Bonding and Karezza a fair shake for a couple of months and then see how you feel about it, because the Bonding Behaviors are truely remarkable for changing one's perspective on one's mate...I know, because they worked for me. I actually thought that I hated my husband because there were so many ways that he hurt me over the years, but with the Bonding Behaviors, we both have been able to let go of all those old resentments that were keeping us apart and holding us back. So try it, Izzy. As one woman to another, I really urge you to try it."

Nice phrasing....for a while I was asking for 5 minutes of bonding behaviors per day under similar sentiments. Next time I ask, I will include your testimony. I'm reluctant to initiate such a request right now. The hugs are warmer and the kisses longer. I'm hot on working my head tripping program.
Thank you for your kind and self revealing regards

My husband is a "head

My husband is a "head tripper" too...or used to be before the BBs started to have their effect! He was so much into the "movie in his head" that it was like he was not there at all, and in a very real way, he was entirely absent. But since starting to take the BBs seriously and practice them every day without fail, he has become much more present, which is a wonderful gift to me (pun intended, lol). So perhaps you could tell Izzy that the more Bonding you and she do, the more present you will become, and that the process is a positive feed-back loop. Pehaps that will appeal to her practicality, because it makes Bonding time really, really well spent!

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you }:)

Nice

So, Honey, does Sapphire's husband getting out of his head through bonding behaviors inspire you to sign up?
Nope

Thanks Sapphire :)

Another Step Along the Way

I am an American puer
I want it fixed, now!
30 years of lies and porn
A year of sobriety (ah, well, there was a slip or two).
30 years of "you fix me"
Single dimensional woman
A dimension less than paper or video screen.
A few days
A couple of weeks of toil
A sweet poem
A loving (truly loving) caress
And I expect it to be fixed.
Must there be 10 years of darkness?
Odysseus, Orpheus, Psyche answer (along with their heroic brothers and sisters)
Perhaps.
The garbage man says
It's a big job, ya know.
Credit Card won't buy it.
There is no guarantee.
It may not be safe.

So...I don't do the porn, I write a poem.
I don't manipulate her to fix me, I give her the loving hug.
I don't cry to be seen, I learn to see her.
I don't threaten to leave (in, oh so many, little ways), I offer my devotion.
I don't tell her, "You need to give more", I glow in gratitude of her gifts.

Thank you my fierce friends
Kali burns away the chaff.
Thank you my soft and cuddly friends
You show me the way of tenderness.
Thank you my struggling wanker friends,
For revealing the lionhearted courage.

The boy says:
I'm afraid she'll just take all my gifts and give me nothing.
The Sargent answers:
Shit boy, you just might die (perhaps he must)
The bodhisattva says:
Good things will come of right action.
I wanna know:
Isn't there a pill I can take?

Touching

OK, it's getting late, but here's what popped into my mind. Can you give her signals that you are not a bottomless pit? Can you try being the first to break off your connections - lovingly, but consistently...and *before* she gets restless - and let her know you're grateful and happy (even if it's a stretch Wink )? No whining. It's doubly draining.

My thought is that you have to train that primitive part of her brain to know that you will not leave her feeling that "no amount of contact is EVER ENOUGH." Just the threat of someone sucking up as much of your energy as they can get (even though that's not your intention) is enough to keep a mate guarded...and therefore not fully present to enjoy your attentions. I believe she'd enjoy them if she knew they weren't going to go on indefinitely...especially while her brain is recalibrating.

*You*create the boundaries so she doesn't perceive you as a black hole of neediness, who always forces HER to set the boundaries and push you away.

And once her brain adjusts to the idea that you will not "drain her dry," you may find that you just naturally sync up again...with your new approach to lovin'. Wink

Good luck. I know it's not an easy assignment. And remember that when she is post-O she may be feeling even less receptive than usual, so don't get discouraged. (Some people get very clingy and demanding post-O; others "need space." Both reactions stem from a subconscious sense of lack.)

I like it

Me setting boundries...black holes....
I do and I don't. It feels good when I pull away first....but she is such a magnet to me. I want to be in her arms or inside of her all the time. An orgasm sure would help create some space.....nah, not an option.
Thank you for your late night advice

Friday Night (explicit)

I know foreplay starts in the kitchen....I've been cool, working my program....opening the drawer, don't think about The Relationship....staying present. So, it's with nonchalance I go to her bed, "It's Friday night, of course I'm in your bed." Well, there is a little trepidation and excitement. Monday is a holiday so I'm looking forward to 3 nights of this. My excitement is one of the paths to my personal Black Hole. Step lightly....exactly the word...lightly.....light on the attachment, light on the heat.
I spoon her...gawd I'm hard. She picks up a book. I nuzzle and kiss her neck and back off. I pick up Nikki Giovanni's "Bicycles: Love Poems". She shares some interesting passages from her book and I, one poem. I maintain thigh contact but soon I feel that I'm chasing her around the bed and back off. Still not sure about reading her, but it's clear that I feel like I am chasing her.
After a while I'm nodding off, so I put my book down and snuggle spoon. Kind of wish my dick wasn't throbbing against her, so I pull my pelvis back. My attitude is loving, grateful, and supportive. She announces she's ready to turn out the light. I have no indication from her that she wants any more from me. I assume she knows I am available for more. (I did not check this out this AM, good boy). I did not stay and stroke her, just a good night kiss. It is with affection and appreciation I leave her bed. This is the fruit of my sobriety. Loving contact and a clean break.
Saturday 5:00 AM
We are awake. I want to run to her bed.
Hold! Hold back, wait.
She finishes in the bathroom before I get up. Her door is closed but the light is on. I go to her. Her back is to me. I join her to spoon and she gives an anguished, "Jeez." Whoa! gone too far....what do I do? Apologize and run? I am hurt a little....just a little, 'cause I kind of knew. "I'll just be a minute," I assure her, and stay just long enough to calm myself and feel her relax (maybe 6 breaths).
When I leave the demons come....Doubt, Recrimination, Anxiety, and Sargent Should Have. I am now stronger by my sobriety, your support, and the discipline of my Pollyanna meditations. I choose to write rather than brood. I must be careful in this coming day. I plan to be available but focused on my own work. The promise simplicity in thought and action is: Important information will be revealed to me as needed. I do not need to be hypervigilant in my attempts to read her...or get her to join me in analysis. I hope to be clear, so I may know her (aura). I don't need to study her to figure her out.
Saturday 10:00
"I'm going to take a shower. Will you make breakfast?" The is one fast motherfucker roller coaster. Elation! she announced a shower, code for "you may join me". Then plunged to the depths. With gritted teeth I tell myself, "I can do service. I can serve the goddess," many times. I am jealous of the water running over her body. At the stove, I hear her hands slapping the water off before toweling. Why am I not there? So I go to her. I hold her half sideways, she does not turn to me, nuzzle her ear and tell her, "I am crazy jealous of the water that has caressed you. I wish I were the towel that dried you." She laughs and (only because of my sobriety) I laugh too, the demonic spell broken.
*sigh*
Blessings on us all

Interesting

that your intuition gave you the right signals. Keep listening. Remember...this is just a temporary tactic until she stops seeing you as a vampire. Wink

I think you once told me you had sweethearts who gave you the creeps because they always want MORE, so just try to think back to those times...and don't take her feelings personally. They'll change. She always comes around, and if you don't swallow her whole, I think you can find a balance. Your wife loves you, you know. Smile

Marnia's Awesome Memory

[quote]I think you once told me you had sweethearts who gave you the creeps because they always want MORE[/quote]I left them. My Isadora hasn't left...what the hell is going on?
Doesn't matter, that question is not part of my program.
Program:
Be as loving, affectionate, and as available as I can, without losing my center.
No negative thinking about The Relationship. If it does not bring me joy or inspire deeper love, I will change my thoughts (AKA The Pollyanna Program).
If something hurtful happens, Let It Go....because I DON'T KNOW if I am making it up. Let It Go because we are not doing analysis.
Of course acts of violence, in word or deed, will be dealt with....without blame.
If I am hurt by something, it's usually something I made up. It's usually in my head. I will deal with it, by myself or with my friends. I have the tools.
Thank you, friends

Valentine's Day (explicit)

Strong round buttocks against my thighs
Smooth shoulder under my hand
My palm rests in that hollow next to the bone
Between thigh and belly
I am grateful for these gifts
I love this woman next to me
Who is it then? that cries out for her to turn

I have so far to go

Sapphire, who is that man who stood by you for 10 years? What can he teach me?

In the selfish haze of porn, I took those gifts for granted.
My head filled with false images, I could not remember what it was like to touch her.
I could only demand more.

Now I hold the memories of the feel of her
I carry them to do battle with the demons that plague me
For every thought of lack or ache of desire
I can bring forth a clear image of her under my hand
And a deep feeling of gratitude comes to rescue me.

Blessings on us all

Hungry touch

What a beautiful poem, AC.
[quote=Aphrodites Chela]
Sapphire, who is that man who stood by you for 10 years? What can he teach me?[/quote]
Actually, AC, we stood by each other, but if he hadn't been willing to try Karezza this time, I was fully prepared to leave him, because I just could not stand living the way were any more.
But to take your question seriously and not just rhetorically, I would say that the main thing my husband did that he could "teach" you, is to get the hunger out of your touch. Seriously. Although I cannot speak for anyone but myself, nothing creeps me out or exhausts me more than being fed upon all the time. My husband was making the mistake of trying to show me how much he loves me by showing me how hungry for me he is all the time, but his doing so only left me feeling creeped-out and depleted. By reading Cupid, he learned that he had to remove the hunger from his touch and replace the energy of taking with the energy of giving. Only then could I start to feel like he loved me and was interested in more than just feeding off of me. I knew that he didn't mean any harm by always sucking energy from me, but that really didn't make any difference to how I felt about him. He had to stop doing it first. Then our relationship could start to heal. But while the hunger was in his touch, he represented a very real psychic danger to me, and my nervous system reacted accordingly (and I might add, appropriately!). It was only when he removed the hunger from his touch that my amygdalas and limbic system started to calm down and not see him and react to him as a predator.

"When choosing between two evils, I always like to pick the one I haven't tried before." Mae West
Questioner: "How do you keep your youth?" Mae West: "I pay him very well."

I'm not sure I get it

I can say without reservation that I no longer want orgasms. The few seconds of pleasure are just not worth the unpleasant after-effects.

I would like to practice karezza again, but I feel no urgency about it. Simply getting some daily physical affection (hugs, cuddling, and sleeping together) would keep me satisfied, probably for years.

However, I AM hungry for that physical affection, those bonding behaviors. The lack of physical affection, and the poor quality of communication between us, are the main reasons for my wanting to leave my marriage. On the other hand, my current sweetheart LOVES to hug, cuddle up and sleep with me, and we enjoy talking with each other for hours. It's so nice to have found someone who shares the same two love languages (http://www.5lovelanguages.com/) with me, namely physical affection and quality time.

What I'm not sure I get is this stuff about "hungry touch," or being "devoured" or "fed upon." Am I doing that? Or is it mostly in the mind of the person who receives my hugs? Certainly I love to get hugs and so on from my sweetheart; I don't feel unpleasantly "fed upon." Devour away! Help yourself! Smile

It has to do with the

It has to do with the quality of the touch involved, and the direction of the energy flow. I just know that when my husband reversed the flow of energy in his touch from taking to giving, it made all the difference in the world to me...and even now, if he starts to go into taking mode, I can tell immediately...then I just tell him and he corrects himself. And he always says something like "you're right, I was pulling from you", so I do not think it is all in the mind of the person who receives the hugs, because a person can take with a hug as well as give with one, you know. My mother is a perfect example of a person who hugs because she wants to receive love, NOT because she wants to give love. Her touch always has a kind of demand in it...the demand to love her. My mother is very needy, and she simply does not know the difference between taking and giving, and wouldn't you know it, I have always experienced my mother as a kind of vampire. When she hugs me, it looks like she is giving, but she is not...she is taking; indeed, she is trying to command** my affection.
**command: demand or receive as one's due

p.s. It may be that many people's touch is a mixture of both taking and giving energies, but when the touch is mostly made of taking energy, for me there is no mistaking it.

"When choosing between two evils, I always like to pick the one I haven't tried before." Mae West
Questioner: "How do you keep your youth?" Mae West: "I pay him very well."

If

it feels this good being used, then use me up

For me it's simple: If I touch her and am bummed out due to her lack of response or annoyance, it was not a clean gift. I came to her with a need. If I can understand that before I touch, better I declare my need up front, before I penetrate her space. Even better for me, at this time, is to see if I can fix it myself first. This is my path and my understanding. To each their own and more power to ya.
Nice to hear from you CF

LOL Thank ya Mae

[bigsmile]
[quote]My husband was making the mistake of trying to show me how much he loves me by showing me how hungry for me he is all the time[/quote]Boy do I know that one! Your thoughtful words are clear and soooo accurate, thank you for the gift of sharing your life with us.

Let me add that my Isadora is a beautiful woman. Men have wanted something from her ever since puberty. At 60 I have thought it gift to let her know how hot she is. Backing off is a good idea. I'm doing pretty good at it (especially during the week), but when she takes her clothes off, it gets pretty hard....did I mean difficult? }:)

V Day Update

First let's give credit: http://www.vday.org/home
Two events of notice:
My card to Izzy, the poem was way different this year. I see Valentine's as a sexual/romantic/fertility holiday and my verse reflects that. This year it was all "I am" this to you....every line, "I am....."
She is ill, a little virus is attacking her....so no kisses, But 2-3 minutes of yab-yum in giving thanks for the gifts exchanged! Yes!!!!!
Oh #3!: The gifts: pillows that she needs for her bed, Not sexy lingerie and sexual expectations....and of course, chocolate

Yes, things are changing
Thank y'all

Peace and Happiness