The hangover after noctural emission

Submitted by mr. drew on
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This is the only form of orgasm that still occurs for me. It still seems to have terrible consequences. Anywhere from 12 hours to 4 days later I have a really, really bad night -- where I feel ready to give up everything. The two dominant thoughts I have are "It doesn't matter" and "Just stop trying".

I'm really wondering if there is a way to medicate myself into never having orgasms, ever. I'm sure it could be accomplished surgically. The downside is just way too down for the minute upside. The fact that they happen in my sleep and fragment my sleep itself, and are out of my control, makes it even worse.

Marnia, I have encountered a huge amount of resistance to your work in the mainstream. I see a clinical social worker for issues of anxiety and she was downright hostile to the idea of controlling orgasms. My best male friend won't crack the book. The woman I am sort-of kind-of seeing asked about the book, a few months ago, and in subsequent discussions has not taken it seriously.

I basically don't see what the point is. Yes, I would love to be in a relationship like the ones described in the book, with lots of bonding behaviors and that happy chemical glow, and I have experienced a bit of bliss and euphoria when I get that chemical lift. But Marnia, I wonder if some people are at such a low default neurochemical set-point that getting into this experience -- orgasm denial followed by accidental orgasm followed by terribly low valleys of depression -- especially when coinciding with external stresses from work or the environment -- is not going to paint a pretty picture.

I am pretty despondent right now and really feel like throwing in the towel. I am sure other men who, like me, may have struggled with anxiety and or addiction have been in similar places. I think a lot of men who find themselves addicted to porn or orgasm probably started that practice because it was the only reliable method they had of continually re-setting their dopamine levels of something approaching "normal" where they could function like everyone else in the world.

I hate feeling like this; it is like being crippled; I want it to end.

I know what you mean. It is

I know what you mean. It is hard to continue sometimes. Those feelings you talk about. The depression. I have had those thoughts of throwing in the towel. Being single does not help the matter very much. I think the benefits for myself have been very noticeable though. I have not had the benefits of feeling more comfortable around people or women like some have discussed after a few weeks of abstinence.
I am still dealing with the anxiety. The big difference though is that I am now doing something about it. If I were still stuck in the addiction I would just be stuck where I was and not care.

I am not sure how to discuss or tell or describe all the stuff in cupid or this site to others. I am sure I would get many bad responses. I see the benefits for myself. I am just not sure many people want to hear it.

I also wonder what a relationship where both people follow as closely as they can the type of bonding that is described in Cupid and this site. I know some have described it. I have not had a physical relationship of any kind yet. I think some of the stuff described here sounds like bliss to me. To just connect with someone in such a way. I am not sure I am ready. I am still working through my addiction. On the other hand I am not sure I can get through it without a relationship. So I am kind of stuck in that loop.

I will say that talking to female friends that know about my addiction and still accept me as a friend and do not judge me on how I let the addiction control my life helps me balance a great deal. I would not even be close to where I am with this addiction without them. When I say talk I mean by phone(I am sure face to face would be good too not done that yet with anyone) not just this board or email. Actually having someone that understands and is accepting to talk to really does help.

Sorry talking to myself as much as you. I do that a lot :). Not sure where I am going with this. I think what I am saying is that the only way to get the full benefits is to share this with a partner that believes in it as well. Of course I am the last person to really talk about that side of it :).

Be Safe
James

To me, the idea is to try to

To me, the idea is to try to avoid having the goal of an orgasm rather than to completely deny oneself an orgasm. It may be helpful to go through a period of time without orgasms, but I don't think the goal of the book is to never have an orgasm. Why would you want to never have an orgasm? Is this realistic to expect? Are you yaking too much of a goal-oriented all or nothing approach? You shouldn't be hard on yourself about your body's normal functions.

thank you idid not go over

thank you idid not go over that part well. that is wht imeant by still being stuck in my addiction. my mind still as the "go for orgasm" mode on. that is what imeant by myself not being ready for a relationship. still working on that. being away from porn is helping that a lot.

thanks

I mostly meant those comments for Mr Drew. (My handheld can be cumbersome). You shouldn't have to wait until urges to have an orgasm go away to start trying to have a relationship. One way would be to try yo make more female friends with the goal of having sex on the back burner. I was friends with my wife for a while before it developed into a relationship. This was after a prolonged period of feeling goofy around women.

Also, even within a

Also, even within a relationship there may be times that one seeks an orgasm with renewed fervor with their partner. While not a perfect activity, humans are imperfect and orgasms are enjoyable.

Lets all remember that as long as we live on this earth, our lives will be imperfect. Karazza goes a long way to bring more satisfaction into a relationship as its focus is less intense and therefore more easy to sustain. Decreasing orgasm is beneficial to one's mood and health also.

However, there are no perfect solutions to our human condition. Lets make do and do the best we can.

We are all frustrated in this world, sexually and otherwise. Whether we are having orgasms, not having orgasms, only have a few orgasms, nothing is perfect. There is no solution to this frustration except to accept it with love and joy.

Well put. Having been with

Well put. Having been with the same person for 15 or so years, I believe different relationships need different things at different times. I don't regret having a lot of sex and orgasms with my partner early in our relationship. However, I've been depressed at times thinking about how life can change. We are very close, and it is liberating to think that our relationship is not solely dependant on O's. I've made it a good long while without an O, but I don't think I could do it without feeling like I was channeling sexual energy versus repressing it.

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experiences so candidly. I'm sorry about those hangovers. How long do they last? This site began as a site for helping strengthen couple's harmony, so I'm learning right along with you guys about the experience of former porn addicts, especially single folk.

Just as the couple's practice is about emphasizing bonding behaviors (not just exploring passing up orgasm when possible), so the single guys report doing better when they have a lot of friendly social interaction (as well as lots of exercise, meditation, etc.). So give us a few more details about what you're doing to balance yourself besides busting to gut to avoid masturbation. Wink

Therapists/sexologists are trained that there can never be such a thing as too much orgasm and that guilt about sex with THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD. I think guilt about sex is unhelpful, but today's porn/masturbation habits are making it clear that there's more to learn than is in the textbooks. It's interesting to me that two psychiatrists, who know way more addiction brain chemistry than the usual psychiatrist, have endorsed my book. It seems the more you know about brain chemistry (not a big part of psychologist/sexologist training...although there are exceptions), the more sense my "outlandish" theory makes.

But back to you. What can you do to increase your support? Are you taking any supplements?

I think it might be too

I think it might be too broad to say that all sex therapists think that more is aways better. The Tiger Woods thing has brought a lot of attention to sex addiction. There are also a lot of right wingers who preach abstinence for moral reasons. When I went through sex therapy many years ago, the therapist very much preached non-goal oriented sex in order to get over anxiety.

Crippling

I can relate to what you are saying mr. drew. I have felt trapped at times in this feeling of "I cant deny myself orgasms, but if I give in..." Its pretty intense. But what Ive noticed about this process of recovery is that the big picture, and how we are cultivating awareness is what is most important. Far more important than avoiding orgasm completely. Its a practice, and just by confronting these contradictory feelings you are making progress. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Thanks for all the replies

Thanks for all the replies -- I am a bit surprised that there are so many. I am very grateful for all your attention, thoughts, and well-wishes.

Here's what I do for self-care: I go to the gym 3x a week. I go to yoga 1x a week. I eat a diet that is low in sugar or processed / refined foods and mostly composed of clean food from the farmer's market. I drink green tea and lots of water and generally not much alcohol (though more lately). I sleep 7-9 hours a night. I don't do any drugs, nor am I any medications. I take a multivitamine, EFAs (fish oil) and vitamin D daily.

I've worked hard to get my level of self-care to its current consistency, and in general I feel I treat my body pretty well. I have pretty unrealistic expectations for it, I admit; and I am pretty hard on myself and can be rigid in my thinking sometimes. Last night was pretty bad.

Marnia, I spent about 4 months tracking quantitatively my level of sexual desire post-orgasm, and the number of days that passed between nocturnal emissions; the average was around 14 days between wet dreams and a decreasing level of sexual arousal. I was under a lot less stress then and had no girl in my life.

I gave up tracking numerically because it felt a bit too sterile. For the past two weeks I have been tracking quantitatively; using journal-entry like notations on my calendar at the end of each day to track both how much I worked and what my mood was like each day. I seem to notice my worst "night" is either 3rd or 4th after an orgasm. This week, I totally relapsed; I exposed myself to arousing images (not quite porn) on both monday and tuesday nights. Wednesday night, when I was hanging out with "my girl" in a nonsexual setting, I just lost it. I felt "over it" and totally unable to communicate. Really strange experience. I'm linking it causally to what were probably dopamine-triggering events on the previous two nights; is that a stretch or does it seem logical? I experienced being very, very angry with this girl, with no clear reasons why (and I really searched my memory, and couldn't identify a single thing she'd done that would have triggered such strong emotions). It really felt like loose emotions, out of control, for no good reason. I felt crazy, like what women describe as having their period and the emotional flux that accompanies.

Probably way more info than you wanted, but this is a safe environment in which to share that I really value.

No all of that is very good

No all of that is very good information. Thanks for sharing.

I think exercise and diet are turning out to be 2 of the biggest things that helps. I really want to get into yoga and more meditation.

Yeah somewhere between day 3 and 4 is bad for me too then day 7 then somewhere around day 20 then it smooths out from there at least for me. I know those feelings you are talking about that feeling of anger for no reason. I often use the term my mind feels like it is trying to tear itself apart.

I have found now that I will go days without marking on my calendar about how many days it has been. I still think about the days and talk about them. I am slowly getting away from "thinking" about the number of days though.

Thanks for the information
Be Safe
James

Yeah, anger

is one of my worst hangover symptoms. It passes. But it's really important not to act on such feelings, and recognize them for what they probably are...distorted perception born of neurochemical swings as your brain returns to balance.

Here's a thought...don't know if it's good or bad. If your "schedule" is every two weeks, could you experiment with sensual masturbation (with no porn or fantasy) on that schedule for a bit and see if things go better? The goal is to avoid the escalation.

Then when you have a steady partner, you could experiment with some other schedule perhaps.