Feeling extreme love and connection from fantasy

Submitted by marylou on
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Hi,

I am struggling with something I hope I can get some new awareness and understanding with!!

The relationship
My partner and I have been together for 11 years and are married with a 5 year old and I am currently 12 weeks pregnant!

The background
When I first met my partner - I/we couldn't get out of the bedroom - honeymoon period x 100!! It was amazing and I did feel very connected with him at this time.
This wore off for me around the 3-6month mark, as I am very 'driven to succeed' in the material world, and while sex is amazing, I have more desires in my life, that I meet with working hard and enjoying those rewards.
My husband and I got engaged within the first 3 months - as the connection and feelings were just so amazing. For me, it was great that we had had this feeling and now we could 'get on' with things as we knew we had this connection, but I had no real desire to experience this every minute of every day (as he did and still does!) This was the beginning. Of my feeling many negative emotions;
1. Annoyance and frustration - at being 'pestered' all the time
2. Guilt - at feeling that it was my job to satisfy, but at the cost of me giving of myself when I begrudged it - I was giving out of obligation and guilt and fear that if I didnt, he might go elsewhere, rather than desire.
3. Self-loathing - in giving of myself when it was against my soul/heart. I wished I could be stronger and say no. But I suppose I feared I would just be saying no all the time
4. "Broken' - how come he had such a strong natural desire and enjoyment of sex, and I didn't. Was there something wrong with me? There was an extreme sadness attached to this. Almost as though I had lost contact with the true natural state of being, I couldnt loose myself in sex anymore. When I was younger, I couldn't get enough and loved it daily. But as I got older - I had other desires - and maybe the chasing of satisfaction from sex didnt bring as much as the satisfaction and social praise from social/material/ego success.
5. Sadness - as my husband always felt he stayed with me hoping that I would find the sexual maniac that I used to be when younger, and feels 'cheated' as she has never returned.

The Results
So this difference in drives has caused alot of emotional pain. And also emotional blocks. As he is not getting 'satisfied' he is at a stand off to give me any satisfaction. My needs for satisfaction seem to all be 'outside the bedroom'. Flowers, loving cuddles, caressing, helping with dinner, doing things together - there is no togetherness in our relationship. Nothing we do together that we both enjoy.
So, I feel desperately unloved and used, (giving of myself to attempt to satisfy him - which never works because he needs me to be there with him), and feels desperately unloved and used as he feels he has no appreciation for financially supporting the family, and getting no sex as reward for this.
So, after feeling at my wits end, I really didnt think that I could live seeing his spirit so broken and depressed, because at the core, I love him so much. I couldnt bear to see him waste his life away, resenting my daughter and I. So, I told him that I could not see a resolution and I could not accept us living in such dissatifaction any longer - fearing it was not good for my daughter to grow up surrounded by. He went traveling with me stating "do what you need to do".
Speaking on the phone was amazing. He sounded so free and excited and radiating energy - and hearing him like that made me feel so happy. I had been waiting for years to see him alive again. I felt so free and euphoric. No responsibilities to full-fill and satisfy and no guilt!
So he put out to the universe to be desired. (Not being specific enough to say from me). And of course the universe provided him with a bounty full of women desiring him. (He is a very attractive guy, so bound to happen). And he had sex with another woman, twice.
Devastation. The connection we had when we were first together was so strong, it was like no-one could ever break that bond. And now I was standing on unknown and unexpected ground. 5 weeks pregnant.
He says that he consciously made the decision to be with her - in a desire to make me desire him. Hey - he is a bloke - I don't get his logic.
I did feel very shocked and confused.
We are back together now, and the initial sex when we saw each other again was amazing. He was so happy and in love, cuddling me, and being affectionate - I even got a bunch of flowers sent to the house yesterday! However, the "unhealthy' emotional states are quickly seeping their way back into our relationship.
1. I have been exhausted and feeling sick, and instead of desiring him, I desire sleep, but know he needs me to satisfy him, so I try and because I am not emotionally there - it insults him more, and he feels he needs to:
1a. Go away for a few days to make me desire him again
1b. go traveling in south america to be true to his heart

2. He has been back at work, resenting that and needing more satisfaction .

My "problem"
I want to enjoy sex. For the feeling of sex. I think I have become so caught up in the pressure.
I want my husband to love life and well as sex. I feel that without sex, nothing else in his life interests him. The more crap his day has been, the more the need for sex to make it all worthwhile.
I want to understand whether him adoring me when he is riding the edge of orgasam is real adoration. I always feel used
1. I love my husband dearly and have chosen to have the baby and try to work things out.

m

You are a Wonderful Person

Hi MaryLou,

Your comments break my heart. You have such a clear view, not just of yourself, but also of your husband. I'm wondering if he sees things quite as clearly as you do. If he does, then I suspect he sees things differently. If he doesn't, then there might just be a vague impression that something is wrong.

Have you seen a counselor? See if you can find someone who can help with the communications issue, someone who will see you together and see you separately, someone who can interpret your needs to your husband and his needs to you in such a way that you can both change how you behave. It sounds to me as though you are both trying to save the relationship, but you are working at cross purposes.

Once you have better communications, Marnia's book is a great way to get back the physical connection and keep that loving feeling going.

P.

Welcome MaryLou

Sounds like something I went through, although I was in your husband's role at the time...wanting more and confusing my partner's lack of libido for "unwillingness to please me and disrespect." I ended the relationship over this...and then realized something. I realized that I had really loved that man, and that we were really well suited in countless ways. I swore to myself that I would never again put sex before relationship.

Some years later I stumbled upon another approach to sex...and perhaps because of that earlier, very painful, lesson, I was open to experimenting with an approach that sounded weird: Karezza: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/what_is_karezza To my surprise, instead of leaving me and my lover unsatisfied, it seemed to keep our relationship consistently playful and deeply fulfilling. We actually *looked* better to each other. Amazing.

My thought is that humans are currently confused about sex and relationship. Many of us are so sensitive to the neurochemical changes after orgasm - which often put lovers out of sync because they leave some of us extra horny and others of us needing "space" - that (after the neurochemically enhanced honeymoon period) we need a different approach in the bedroom: one that emphasizes daily bonding behaviors, and moves away from the goal of orgasm. This isn't because orgasm is bad, but because too much can lead to satiation...or dissatisfaction and a desire for the high of another neurochemical "honeymoon" with a novel partner. (This program serves our genes - who love genetic variety.)

I don't know if your husband is open to trying something completely novel for a few weeks...just to see if it brings the two of you into harmony from the inside out (by shifting the neurochemical balance in your brains). Not much to lose, right? I think you're right that you can't "fake it." Similarly, if he just trusts the signals coming from his primitive brain about what makes him feel more alive...it will likely be novelty because of the neurochemical buzz it guarantees.

To understand the challenge you're facing better, and to understand how typical your situation is, have a look at these two articles:

"What If She Were Always in the Mood?" http://www.reuniting.info/science/coolidge_effect_2009

And "Normative Sex: Time For A Fork in the Road?" (why pair-bonders often have to approach sex differently, if they want to continue to adore each other) http://www.reuniting.info/normative_sex_fork_in_the_road

Keep us posted. I'll enable you to blog.

this is marylou husband

We have been blessed with open communication and honesty since the start of the relationship which is why I was surprised to read some things my wifes post.
most of it I was aware of but what I did not realize was how much pressure she feels she is under.
It breaks my heart to know she feels Annoyance and frustration - at being 'pestered' all the time.
She feels Guilt - at feeling that it was her job to satisfy, but at the cost of her giving of herself when she begrudged it - she was giving out of obligation and guilt and fear that if she didnt, i might go elsewhere. This is very frustrating as I am a very sexual person and I gave myself to her. Due to me honesty and commitment to her I am left with the choise to
1, masturbate which dealts with me pestering her yet leaves me feeling unbonded or unloved.
2, Talk about opening up the marriage so she is not burdened with my needs.
3, learning how to bond without sexual energy. (feels like giving up a pass to bliss/heaven which is what life is all about for me)

Her Self-loathing - in giving herself when it was against my soul/heart is also frustrating as I never want this. It is frustrating to be rejected but thats my stuff to dealt with. its not for her to take on or give in against her heart.

her Sadness - as she always felt I stayed with her hoping that she would find the sexual maniac that she used to be when younger, she thinks I feel 'cheated' as she has never returned to that. I guess I am always hoping she will relax a bit, let her self go and become the sexual goddess I know she can be.

I will ask what she needs and then look to meet them but find If After time my need are not being met I then start to feel resentful which blocks my energy flowing towards her.

My needs are to share the bliss I feel durning sex with her. I am happy not cumming but like to get closes and to ride that edge and would like to share this with her. when we make love she likes to escape into her own fantasies and cum. I feel good that she is satisfied but feel we are missing out on sharing a deeper more connected experience. I have talked to her about her not cumming and when she try's this she gets very frustrated and snaps out of the aroused state.

more about me.
when I was brought up I did not receive much affection which has resulted in me only feeling like I bond when I am full of sexual energy. I am not sure why this is but because of the feeling of bonding being a massive turn on for me the only person I have felt a strong bond with is my wife. I push away the bond with others as I find it all too wrong due to the sexual energy it triggers.
I find it hard to bond unless I feel a bit sexual energy. This has caused my wife to feel used. I am very giving in bed and have a strong need to see my partner in pleasure. I also have a strong need to feel desired. I want to be worshiped sexually. I know its a bit egotistical yet it "is" all the same so I feel I have to accept it as where I am at before moving on.
my wife is from australia and we took two months off the see her family recently. for several years before hand I was feeling depressed with my life due to a lack of sexual fulfillment (and bad coping strategies like porn, and masturbating). I also throwed myself into work heavy.
I knew the relationship needed work so decided to use the break to put things back in balance between us. I have a strong need to be desired and want to be attractive and threw my wish for that out to the universe.
Due to my wife also wanting to catch up with old family and friends I ended up wasting my time. I decided to give my wife some space with her family and went traveling by myself. We both knew we where heading towards the end of our relationship.
I was hoping the space would help her find the kind of desire for me she had when we met.
Traveling was great for me. only having to worry about myself. not feeling guilty smiling back at the old girl that would smile at me. It did not take me long to feel alive again. I was full of energy, no desire to masturbate, loving life. after a few weeks I met a girl who seemed to adore me. She knew I was married but still seem to want me badly. I remembered my wish to be desired and I decided to go with the flow despite being a bit reluctant due to my situation.
It was just what I needed. My self confidence was being restored. I had of course accepted my wife and I separating at this point and already started to lay plans in returning home finishing my business and going traveling to south america.
I spoke to my wife a couple of days later and told her everything. she was very understanding. It was all very strange. ( I was told i am near infertile due to testicle cancer 4 years ago so was also surprised to hear my wife was pregnant after year of trying.)
I agreed to met up with my wife so she drove for 12 hours to meet me. the first 20 minutes was a bit strange but after that we went to a hotel and it was like when we first met again.
It was like this for a good couple of weeks until I notice things start to slip again. I was still withholding orgasm (with the odd little mistake) so I am worried that when my wife feels secure she does not desire me.
I have never played any games and always been beyond honest with her. I think she is smoking hot and worry she does not feel the same about me.

sorry if this is all a bit long or unnecessary. It is great to just get it all out somewhere. Me and my wife do talk about all this stuff but It appears a bit more comes out this way.

I believe my wife main question in her post was ''I want to understand whether him adoring me when he is riding the edge of orgasam is real adoration. I always feel used''

It feels like real adoration to me yet I do understand that the mind can protect its addictions.

marylou husband

It's nice to hear

from a spouse, too. Thanks for sharing your story. I can certainly understand your frustration. To you, it seems like you have all the pieces...and should be able to fit them together satisfactorily...somehow. Maddening.

May I suggest that you carefully read those articles I linked to in my post above? There is more than one kind of bliss. And I can tell you that I have never felt so loved and "worshipped" as I do now, and I suspect my husband would say the same. "Riding the edge" is not the only path to happiness. It seems to me that you two might really benefit from trying a gradual program for a few weeks, which puts the emphasis on bonding behaviors instead of heating up to "red hot," whether or not you ejaculate (the reasons why that can be problematic are spelled out in our book...it has to do with what goes on in the brain during sexual arousal). See: "The Lazy Way to Stay in Love" http://www.reuniting.info/lazy_way_to_stay_in_love

It's hard to understand that one person's bliss can be another person's "feeding frenzy" that leaves her (or him) feeling drained energetically, but your wife is not that unusual, and it doesn't mean she has a problem...or that you do. Still, it means you will both have to adjust your thinking to find a middle ground that works. Or you may be doomed to repeating this unsatisfying pattern with new lovers (honeymoon hots followed by sex drives going out of sync).

I think that slowing things WAY down for a bit could be a great way to come back into sync. Last time you did this with an actual separation. But there's a way to do that in each other's arms, too. If you are interested, I can send you a copy of the Ecstatic Exchanges (the three-week program from the back of our book) and you can experiment with that. Incidentally, they work every time you use them...in case you drift back into the same impasse some time in the future.

As you point out, the underlying need you have is to be adored. Once you experience that this is possible, even without intercourse (I'm not kidding!), you can learn to add intercourse back in gently, and still feel fully satisfied.

But you need an open mind and several weeks of daily affection to see it for yourself. Are you open to trying? Worse case...it doesn't work and you've passed up a few orgasms. Smile

Let's try

Hi Marnia - it's Marylou.

Thank you for your time.

I truly believe that my husband and I would benefit from trying more bonding behaviours, but we dont really know what to do?? It seems too flippant to say 'cuddle more'. I need more structure, otherwise it feels aimless. Also when we cuddle, my husband always then gets aroused. He has always said that's why he can't cuddle me, just for a cuddle. As he stated, he cant bond without sexual energy. So either I feel pressured, or he ends up frustrated. He said a cuddle to him is like waving heroin infront of a heroin addict. Any ideas here??

I would love your 3 week program from the back of the book. Thank-you.

OK, I'll send it to your

registration email. Meanwhile, both of you can take a look at these two articles:

The Lazy Way to Stay in Love
http://www.reuniting.info/lazy_way_to_stay_in_love

The Ecstatic Exchanges: Why They Work
http://www.reuniting.info/science/ecstatic_exchanges_and_neurochemistry

It's strongly recommended to read "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" first, because it has a coherent discussion of the science. It's important to know *why* you're trying something so unfamiliar. But if you can't, you can't.

By the way, I agree with your husband. I couldn't cuddle nightly without structure at first either. That's why I created the Exchanges. Now I'm really good at it, though. Smile

Good luck!

Family Interaction

I find it interesting, from the husband's point of view, that he sees early growing up lack of bonding behaviors as why he feels a need for sexual energy to bond. In some ways, my past is the same. My family growing up did minimal to no hugs, kisses, etc. The most was as a child, kissing my mom and dad goodnight. But the divorce when I was eight brought and end to even that. I have no doubt my mom loved me, but I never received hugs or such from her.

And though I remained a virgin until I was married, I masturbated regularly, nearly every day. And when we did get married, I had the expectation that sex would be a nightly (or almost) thing. But even on the honeymoon, that was not the case. First, she had pain on the honeymoon because despite her request to the doctor to break the "barrier" as we had read in a book was a good idea, the doctor wouldn't do it citing it should only be broken by the husband. Well, this husband felt cheated, because it did break the second time on the honeymoon and she was in so much pain that we could hardly do it. So I figured when that pain subsided, we'd get on a nightly track. No go. And it became a big sticking point in our marriage. At one point many years ago I really struggled with the question, "Maybe she doesn't really love me?" I knew it in my mind, but didn't feel it as I felt she rarely wanted to have sex, and most of the time she did it begrudgingly, out of duty.

I've discussed this in other places here, but due to our strong bond and some favorable circumstances, two things have happened. One, she dealt with issues she had with the concept that "sex is dirty" from having seen a picture of her step-dad getting a blow job by her mother as a child. That affected her so that sex always feel a negative to her, and associated with guilt, hidden pictures, dirty pictures. The other was the pain associated with the first experiences of sex, and I think that took some getting over subconsciously to break that association of sex=pain, even when it never really hurt once healed. So about 15 years into our marriage, she had a complete change of attitude about sex. We still don't do it every night, nor I image will that ever be the case. She just isn't wired. If it ever happens, I'll be surprised, and strangely enough at this point in my journey, knowing what I know now, unhappy that she's turned into a sex demanding machine. But now she enjoys sex, hardly ever sounds or feels reluctant to have sex as long as there is time and she's not prevented by some other reason. I no longer feel like I have to pull her into it, begging and asking, "But honey, it's been a month. When can we do it?" Now I just say, "Wow, do you realize its been about three weeks since we've had sex?" And she'll say something like, "Oh, well. We need to fix that."

The other thing, even before she turned a corner, was I turned a corner. For me, at least, due to several factors, divorce wasn't ever a serious consideration. So I became content with the fact that she simply wasn't the sex goddess I had originally expected her to be. That she didn't want sex that often wasn't saying she didn't love me, but just the way she was wired and also she needed space to deal with those issues mentioned above. So I eventually decided, though feeling some loss over the unfulfilled expectations, that perhaps it was unrealistic to expect sex nearly every night. For her, maybe even the "average" which I've always heard is about three times a week. It wasn't easy. Like you, I was highly addicted to orgasmic feelings, and felt a lack of full bonding without that. It wasn't easy to make the adjustment, but I knew this. I was addicted to it, and that wasn't good. I knew I wanted it too much. So in the end, I knew this would be good for me to find a way to break out of this need to orgasm daily or more. The fact I couldn't go very long without masturbating at least showed that I was addicted to it. And I should be in control.

Now, what has happened is that I became content with her frequency, and she did eventually turn the corner herself. We have sex more often and I don't have to drag her into it when we do, but I ended up dealing with my own addition by masturbating, nearly daily. She knew I did it, and was actually happy about it because it took the pressure off of her. But it gave her the space she needed to not feel like I was constantly needy, and the resulting guilt on her part for not satisfying her husband all the time. Though it took a while before it set in for her that I wasn't being needy. Before, every hug or kiss was interpreted as me wanting to have sex. Now, she gets them just because it is one among many ways to bond, and she rarely interprets them as me saying, "Let's get in bed." And she will occasionally initiate having sex, whereas before it was a very, very unusual situation if she "wanted" it.

Now, despite that, I've struggled with this addiction to orgasm for years now. She's "fixed" to a much larger degree. She can decide to go without and do it successfully. I couldn't. I would try on occasion. I'd go maybe a week, a few times a couple of weeks. But in the past few years it seems I've gone backwards. I'd try to refrain and I wouldn't last more than a couple of days, if that. And that probably corresponds to my increased use of porn over the last several years too.

It hasn't been until finding this site that I've actually felt some hope in getting a hold on this. When I first came across this site, my mind said, "No! Run away! Run away! You don't want to abstain." And truly from my addicted self, I had no intention of giving that up. Didn't want to. But it can't hurt to look and read. I started off gradually after reading the science behind this and understanding the addiction more. It not only made sense, it connected a lot of dots in my brain that had formerly been missing as to the why I wanted to have an orgasm every day, and what negative effects this produced. Not identifying with all the negative effects, I began to wonder what I would find out if I did hold off for more than two weeks (when the chemicals in the brain are said to get back in balance after an orgasm). Would I find that I liked it better there? My brain didn't want to find out, but the other part of me did who wanted to control it instead of it controlling me. Suddenly, my wife's schedule of wanting sex sounded more in tune with the science, which currently is 2-3 times a month at most, barring special circumstances like our upcoming anniversary. 28 years it will be May 15th.

But the odd thing is as I've done my self-control training, involving a more gradual building up of abstinence, I came to the point where I sincerely felt I wanted to be free not to feel the need to orgasm every night. I wanted to be in the state of only orgasming on occasion, when I felt enough time had passed since the last one. I actually wanted this! I had never really wanted it before. I had known it would be good for me, that I was too addicted, but I had never really "wanted" to quit or abstain. I was always fighting against my desire.

But now I find myself looking forward to my upcoming big experiment of going all of June without an orgasm, just to find out what its like on the other side of the fence. I have to know if it is worth it. What will I discover about myself, how I feel, etc. I won't know until I try it, won't know what I might be missing out on. And going a month is a big deal, because I've only done that once in my life, back in my teen years, when porn had never been a factor. One part of me is saying I can't do it, another is feeling a sense of destiny, a sense of this time something inside of me has changed and not only can I do it, but even be happy about it! I simply wasn't at this spot back in February, so I'm as surprised as anyone that I'm even thinking or saying that.

But, assuming I discover what I think I might, I'm feeling more and more my goal will be to bring myself to only orgasming with my wife, on her schedule. But first I have to make sure I'm not going to end up in the state of being "needy" with her about it. Rather, I want to be content, whatever her schedule is. I want to be at the state that I can be happy if we do it, and happy if we don't.

And, to help things, I'm also hoping we can discover more about instigating some level of Karezza in our relationship when she is ready and I feel I have the control (I think I'm already there on that as I've done a little in abstinence and then stopped as part of my self-control training--not something for anyone to try, but for me it works because I can put my mind in the state that I'm only going to do xyz, and then no matter how good it feels, put it away) but she's not there yet. But I think that would help deal with the sexual energy in between orgasms. But I'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

But, to return full circle, I have two boys and a girl. The oldest boy is 21, and the younger is 16. One of the blessings I have is that they are both so affectionate. I get hugs and playfulness from them on a daily basis. Not only do I enjoy it, but I'm so glad that I'm giving to them what I never had growing up...real physical bonding (in a non-sexual way of course) with my parents. And just maybe they won't have to deal with needing orgasm on a regular basis like I did, at least because of that reason. They'll never be able to blame me! :D

And one thing I've learned over the years, is that bonding involves so much more than sexual energy. That's part of it in a marriage, but it is the tail end of it. Like wrapping a present, wrapping the present and tying the bow on to make it all look pretty is just the ending process to experience the joy. There is also the finding/making of the gift that you truly think they will enjoy and benefit from. Then there is the giving. And yes, even returns if you didn't get the right size or one. Sex is meant to tie up all the other ways we bond as friends, as martyrs (giving of ourselves unselfishly to each other), as parents, as a team, as partners, as well as sexual mates. The sex takes what we have with each other and intensifies them into a more intimate bond than we would have with others we have similarly bonded with, and completes the becoming one together.

But how frequently does it take to make that bond effective? People could give different answers. But I'm sure it doesn't require and everyday orgasm to keep it alive. In one sense, since we've done it, that's it. We're bonded. But it doesn't hurt to keep that renewed and current. But even then, once a month would probably be sufficient. Maybe once a quarter even. I don't know what it will turn out to be for us, but I know I do it way too often and that I'm the one that needs to slow down. It's not her that needs to speed up. And yes, the sex drive can be strong, especially when the patterns in our mind have been etched in strongly with regular dopamine floods from orgasms, but it is possible to overcome that, and I've come to believe that it is not only possible, but very much needed if I want to have the maximum benefit from my relationship with my wife. And I know it will be a real blessing to finally control this addiction and no longer have it control me. Amazingly enough, it may be my wife who only wants sex two or three times a month that may be my salvation on that point.

But having been, in many ways, where you are at, and having come as far as I have, I know it would not be impossible for you as well, despite what I know your brain is telling you right now. And based on the science Marnia has presented on this site and in her book, even if you break up, you'll run through the same cycle with the next woman. Better to deal with the real issue here than getting another temporary fix in a new woman who will eventually feel the same way or even more like my own wife. Those chemicals firing off in the brain are simply unforgiving on that account.

Wishing you both the best and that you'll be able to work through this.

I really hope the two of you

I really hope the two of you can work it out~

Marnia has it right when she says if you leave it will just happen all over again with a new lover.

I was married to a man who was always a thrill-seeker and running from his own demons. I finally allowed him to run away for good and I'm hoping he can find happiness while he moves from place-to-place and town-to-town.

But something tells me the demons are still with him and the change of venue is never going to be enough. I hope I'm wrong, for his sake.

I'm willing to bet if you two practiced the bonding behaviors long enough, you would finally feel that nurturing and bonding you've been seeking your whole life. And your craving for orgasm would be replaced with bliss and contentment.

How fortunate you are to have found this site before it is too late!! Be well~

rediscovered

On the path - I think

Hi Again, and thanks to everyone who has given time and energy.

Marnia has kindly sent through the bonding techniques, I have read a couple, then got distracted, and alas have not got back to it.

However, we have continued "on the path" so far as not orgasming, not fantasising whilst having sex, no erotic sex talk and no porn for my husband. And I suppose to be honest, no real effort at bonding techniques. I suppose we both feel that giving up sexual highs is enough to start with.

My husband and I did have an orgasm together after say 2 weeks, (last week) and it was amazing. I still used all the same physical techniques to orgasm as I did previously, but did not fantasise. It was amazing and I was on a high for about 2 days, and felt as though there was a massive ball of energy in my lower abdomen, which has making me crave another orgasm. I tried again, but alas with kids, it was not to happen, and the energy has gone away.

My husband is on complete withdrawl. Sex and football are the only too things in life that "reward" him for putting himself through all the "chores" of life. So now without the sexual high's, he doesn't really have much desire for sex, and feels unbonded and unwilling to bond with me. He bonds for the sexual high, and as he is not getting that, feels too drained to "give" energy to bond. He feels like he has given enough already through the "chores".

I suppose that sex can be a bandaid to an unfullfilling life. I used to have a glass of wine each night, whilst I made dinner, and would feel a million dollars! It was relax me, and somehow, everything would be perfect in my world (which previously - wineless - felt bland). Now that I am pregnant - no wine for me - but as I have a 'higher purpose' I dont need the wine to make everything ok - plus I dont really feel like it, and I wouldnt drink whilst pregnant anyway. SO my husband and I were chatting and I said if I would have had to give up my wine, that would have been hard, and I realised that my wine is his sex. So, with out the sexual highs - he has no kick start to keep him going or no bandaid to make his bland life more satifying.

I can hear everyone saying, of course - because you have given up - and not done the bonding. So I will print them out now and dedicate time to this.

I also wanted to add that my husband did have a moment of finding it hard to keep aroused - which has NEVER happened before. So in a way, his sexualness within himself is not as strong as it was before - is this common??

Finally, I know they say that an alcoholic can never have another drink - does anyone have any ideas on whether you are allowed to fantasise "sometimes" - just as a little treat?????

Is is just that we have not given it enough time yet for the true benefits of this non-sexual high way to show us it's benefits!! Is there light at the end of the tunnel - or will sex forevermore be less high.

XXXX

Exhaustion

Lastly, do these techniques only work when practiced when you are both full of energy - or do they energise you. I suppose we both feel too exhausted to give energy at the end of the day - which is the only time we have. And will only get worse when the baby comes! We are seeing bonding as taking too much energy - how do we change this?

A Little Hint . . .

If "bonding behaviors" seems like a big deal, just start with a simple hug. Hug your spouse in a generous, giving way once a day. I found that it energized both of us, even though my wife didn't buy into all this Karezza stuff. In the beginning all I got was an indulgent smile, but as I kept at it, she started to hug back and things went up from there. :)

P.

My Two Cents

For Marylou,

Another bonding behavior I recently discovered that takes little energy is as followings: (I find it to be extremely helpful); I got the Idea from Laura Day's book on intuition.

1. Hold your spouse in your mind and begin to think about them (picture them, their body, their smile, their smell, their sounds, etc.)

2. Imagine that you are no longer yourself but that you have become your spouse; (If you are a man, imagine you have become your wife; If you are a woman, imagine that you have become your husband)

3. While being the other, imagine and really try to feel life as they do. What is it like with your wife's vaginal or her breasts? What is it like to have long hair or soft smooth skin? Emotionally? How is it to feel as your wife feels? Etc.

4. Think about what needs you have now that you are your wife or your husband. Physical needs? Emotional ones? Etc. Try to feel their experiences? Their bodies? Their pain and their pleasures. Their joys. Their sorrows.

5. Finally, enjoy the other person as yourself. Find pleasure in the moment. Find compassion for the other. You are the other. The two shall become one flesh.

Another Comment:

While I tend to occassionally enjoy karazza, I am very pro-orgasm (my wife really wants me to cum when I have sex with her). I tend to have many on a given week, either with her or with myself. In addition to the above, if you are going to orgasm, try your best to orgasm through your heart center. By delaying orgasm for five or ten or fifteen minutes, and taking slight breaks in thrusting, try to feel the pleasure through the heart as if there were a gold soft tunnel connecting your genitals to your heart. When you orgasm, try to feel through your heart.

I find that experience of orgasm better spills over into one's daily life when you are not having sex anymore. Instead it being over after sex, that orgasm experience tends to stay with me for at least a day or two; I really get to enjoy my life with that orgasm energy ever present in my heart.

Hi ML

That's the standard pattern most people drift into...no contact except when orgasm is the goal...and then feeling desensitized to some degree the rest of the time.

The whole purpose of the bonding behaviors is to pull you out of that rut. Wink They help make the brain more sensitive to the gifts of affectionate touch and close companionship. Those things register as rewarding, too....but not while your brains are desensitized after an orgasm. Hence the suggestion of two weeks of bonding behaviors. IF the Exchanges are burdensome, then just go with short (a few minutes) of bonding behaviors of your choice. See the list here: http://www.reuniting.info/lazy_way_to_stay_in_love

Just avoiding orgasm for a time between orgasms was a good experiment...and you got a really clear picture of what happens... a bigger bang...and greater dissatisfaction afterward, a total lack of the desire to try the "vanilla" bonding behaviors, and a desire to heat things up with fantasy ("dark chocolate" Wink ). That's all quite usual.