Submitted by apollo_in_the_d... on
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Finding this website has been very helpful. In fact, I found this website because I was searching for Mantak Chia's instructions for circulating sexual energy. I've been involved in meditative disciplines for nearly 14 years (though I am only 30) and this aspect has always alluded me. Because, in most literature, no matter how explicit the teacher is in their instruction, the down-to-earth facts about sex are often glossed over or spoken of in vague generalized terms. I remember wanting to know how to circulate sex energy since I was a little kid, believe it or not. I remember asking my father how to do it and he had no real advice... Anyway, the taoist breathing technique worked well. I found myself on a kind of high for several days after. It was unlike anything I've experienced in many ways as it last far longer. It was *high quality* [ying] lol. I also decided at this time to stop masturbating for a while. Since I've been single for the last few years this has become an increasing addiction / reaction to stress that seems to make it worse. At one time it was so bad I was having panic attacks (this is for another post sometime! too much to say...)

Reading the articles on this site about dopamine and prolactin levels after orgasm made a big impact on me. It put a LOT of things into perspective for me. Thank you! I could go on and on about all sorts of related things both good and bad... My question for the moment...

Once you have gone a while without orgasm and your brain balances it's chemical levels and gets the all needed chemical reset... Is it possible to orgasm without such detrimental chemical changes in the brain? A healthy-gasm, so to speak? It has been 5 days now and it is amazing! My respiration rate is often far slower than it has been in years (especially during periods of meditation and tai chi) though my energy is often far higher than it has been in years. Sometimes my energy is REALLY high. I will say there have been some times when I just sort of had to "hang out" with my bad feelings. I have felt my lower energy centers "clearing house". And sometimes this has been... icky... and at times even a little scary. But the heart has a way of clearing things up, transforming them, and usually after an hour or two I am able to get a good zen laugh in. There's all sorts of junk down tharrrgh matey!

How long in abstinence until this "chemical reset" is achieved?

I would like to hear from other forum members if they experience the same kinds of "aches and pains" in the days following an orgasm. Does it get easier? Or does the chemical levels in the brain get this messed up every time we ejaculate.

I am hoping that much of my occasionally negative experiences are due to abusing my sexual system for so long. And am hoping that I can establish a new relationship with my sexuality and human-being-ness in the process. I have felt that happening already.

I have no refrained from "touching myself". I have still taken pleasure in enjoying my own unit. I seem to gather that many forum members undergoing a task of celibacy are refraining altogether from touching it. Am I correct? I feel like, for me at least, it is better to get some blood in there. Otherwise I tend to feel that depressed feeling. Any thoughts are welcome! There is too much to talk about... I'm glad I found y'all! Reunitin' and it feels so good... looking forward to future contact.


I think you'll find that others *are* experiencing similar things. Check out this Wiki list, if you haven't already:

The issue of whether "touching" is helpful or not seems to depend on one's situation. For centuries sages have recommended solo practices for handling sexual energy, so there's obviously something to them. That said, some guys take a while to get balanced enough to benefit from them. Till then, the stimulation can be too much of a "cue" related to their addiction. So there's no easy answer.

I don't know if there's an easy answer to the "What happens when I'm back in balance?" question either. But the good news is that you can conduct your own experiments and find out what works for you. In any case, by then, you may have a sweetheart. Wink

Start a blog if you like.

Thanks, I'm pretty fired up

Thanks, I'm pretty fired up about this.

I hope I do have a sweetheart again sometime soon. I have so much love to give! :)

I have to say, you're amazing with how quickly you respond. Either you are a truly dedicated, helpful person with a really big heart or you have a serious internet addiction... lol (I'm just kidding!) I think it is the former reason. Reading all these posts (I haven't read nearly all of them yet) I'm amazed at how supportive and dedicated you are. And others as well! I'm so glad that a website like this exists.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the links. I'm finding some great stuff. Another burning question...

I had always heard it said, while a man should learn to retain his semen, a women needs the opposite. That, unlike men, women have a spiritual need for orgasm. And the information on this site seems to say that men and women are NOT different in this respect. I seem to get from the site that both of us need to learn how to limit orgasm and enjoy sex without goal, so to speak. So the question... Is this true? Is there any truth behind what I had formerly believed about the functional difference between male and female orgasm?

Welcome Apollo

You will find this is a great community with a wealth of information. Lots of knowledgeable and dedicated people here and Marnia in particular really shines - so active I think she is plugged in 24/7 - and all of us are the beneficiaries of her dedication. In response to the first part of your post no matter how long I charge my "batteries" an orgasm brings about the loss of energy and negative chemical effects - and for me this is particularly bad so I have learned to avoid orgasm and ride the wave of pleasure up to but not going over into orgasm. I have a loving wife who remains orgasmic in spite of the fact that I am not - and like you all I had read on the subject prior to finding Marnia and this site promoted orgasm for women - that female orgasm was for a different genetic purpose than a male and that women should have as many as possible. I admit to still being on the fence on this because my wife is very orgasmic without the apparent negative side effects I suffer from - so I continue to gather information on the subject and feedback from the community here to gain a better understanding of it all. I am however totally convinced that Marnia is right in that the bonding and intimacy that results from Karezza and like activities can be (and are) invaluable to a couple - especially one with issues with intimacy and connectitivity.

Thanks for your reply. I had

Thanks for your reply. I had always thought that orgasm was healthier for women since, functionally, they are *taking something in*. As opposed to the male orgasm which is *letting something out*.

I'm really looking forward to reading Cupid's Poisoned Arrow. Looks like a great book to have.

I think I *do*

spend too much time at the computer, although I take more breaks than you might think. Wink I live in a climate where I can spend time each day outside pretty much all year round (pretty dry), so that helps. I also do a lot of blogging, so when I need a break I see what you folks are up to. Smile

The belief that orgasm is good for women is based on the belief that orgasm is a problem for men due to *semen loss.* And sometimes a corresponding belief that semen is a big benefit for women.

We disagree. We think that orgasm is problematic for many due to the subtle changes it causes in the brain (and perhaps in the energy field...who knows?). This means both sexes are potentially affected...some more than others. Anecdotal evidence, and research on animals confirms this theory. Both male and female rats show (different) brain/hormonal changes that last 15 days, for example.

Incidentally, although most of us get the impression from today's tantra and Daoist teachers that orgasm is not problem for women (or even beneficial) fact, both traditions have records saying orgasm *is* a problem for women, too (although not as much of a problem as it is for men). Have a look at this book, a translation of ancient Daoist texts:

The confusion may stem from the fact that women feel the effects of orgasm differently from men. In me, for example, they are delayed, which made them hard to correlate. Also, they showed up not so much as fatigue, but rather in terms of mood swings and distorted perception. Orgasm itself felt great...sometimes making me high for days, perhaps because the connection was so beneficial to my nervous system. But those benefits continued with karezza, so....

My thought is that people should make their own observations, but extend their observation period for a couple of weeks.

Fantastic! I will have to

Fantastic! I will have to check out the source text as well. This confirms something that I suspected: That even the Taoist traditions may have been tainted in favor of the male. For example, some male practitioners may be trying to take more than they give. Of course, I suppose if your female counterpart prefers the release of orgasm then it's probably just fine since the energy was going to be given away anyway.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your own experience.

It seems much clearer to me now why even in a new "really hot" relationship with lots of conventional sex there can be A LOT of bickering and projecting of negativity onto your partner. It's also really helpful for me to see how, in the past, kissing and other bonding behaviors became nearly extinct from my relationship after several years and there seemed to be a lack of caring love.


it seems our genes like a tension in us between bonding long enough to fall in love with a kid (which would be likely without birth control)...and moving on to a new genetic prospect. Sneaky.

Here's a story you guys might find interesting

It's from a young woman, and gives you an idea of what it's like to be on the other side of heavy porn use. I share it with her permission.

I suspected that he's been using porn and asked him some weeks ago.
He said yes. I've been using bonding behaviours the last 3 weeks which happened to be his vacation and we have had all the time in the world. He's not receptive much of the time during his passion cycle and even flares up if I try to caress him or look into his eyes.

I've also encouraged him to try gentle intercourse and we did it a couple of times but he gets vigourous and tries to come. After he comes, the horrible passion cycle starts again which is very clear to me.

We've had intercourse without orgasm the past 2 days and the feeling between us is delicious. I often ask him to slow down or just rest inside me and these moments feel just divine. I've never experienced anything like this before. My body feels sweet and juicy all over for hours afterwards.

But if he's using internet porn to have orgasms then I guess his passion cycle is constant. Last night he saw a sexy film on TV and I sat beside him. He wanted to make love afterward, but kept his eyes closed. I could see that he was fantasising and not so loving towards me. I had difficulty trusting him and difficulty getting lubricated. He tried to heat me up and I gently refused. He was angry at me that his penis began to hurt and I didn't allow him to arouse me with force. I guess he's getting very impatient now and wants very badly to come if we have intercourse. The best thing would be to wait with intercourse a couple of days. He may be masturbating when I'm not around.

What's helping me a lot to stay centred and calm is my meditation practice. I see that there is a lot of love between us and potential to grow together in love. It's just a matter of time and how soon he starts appreciating this new way of cherishing each other.

I still feel jealous about how he looks at other women and the programmes he chooses to see on TV, but it passes faster for me now. It seems like a project because of his resistance but I've been through enough painful relationships (quite a few actually) to see that it's worth a try.

Waiting eagerly for the two books I ordered [about Daoist sex] to share with my boyfriend. Wondering how he'll react when I give them to him, he may be a bit curious. I love him a lot anyhow.

Just visited a male friend and talked about my fears and insecurities around my boyfriend´s porn use. He said "there´s so much free porn available on the net. Have you tried YouPorn? You have so much variety there with videos. All my men friends watch it regularly."

Yesterday I had to let him masturbate inside me. I could sense in his touch that he had watched porn (all he touched was my genitals and hips). He kept his eyes closed, had his orgasm and just wanted to sleep. He asked me if I was going to be angry at him coz he came. I replied, "Try and be nice to me the next couple of weeks even though you feel angry." He did actually make an effort today but the coldness, the sarcasm and the distance is obviouly there.

The first of the books arrived today, with material on how men can control ejaculation. Can't wait to read with him!!!

Thanks for sharing this story Marnia

Kind of makes me glad that I went through puberty and my most formative years as a youth before there was an internet. The occasional Playboy back then does not even begin to compare to the endless amount and variety of porn available today. I still remember the almost supernatural sex drive I had as a young man - so much energy - but so little understanding of what to do with it. I'll be honest here and say that if I had today's porn available back then I am not certain I would have been able to resist - way to easy to fall into the pit of endless endorphin cycling and the addictive behavior that goes with it. Even more insidious however is the fact that I would never even understood that porn could be a problem - I would have rationalized that it was perfectly fine to indulge - especially if I did not have a partner - without understanding the effects this behavior had on my mind/body and how it would sabotage my ability to form and maintain relations with real flesh and blood women. I would have done this in complete blissful ignorance because I just did not know any better.

Not much has really changed since then either - lots more media available - lots more information - but collectively we have not become much wiser in spite of it. More pressure, and more challenges face people in relationships than ever before.

Sad that humankind has not done a better job of educating our youth during their most formative years and provide the most important life skills - how to create a lasting intimate connection with another person - how to develop and maintain relationships - and how our biology and genetics drive us. I am very hopeful that Marnia's philosophy becomes more mainstream and we can get the collective "wisdom" of "Reuniting" out there in the world and into the hands of people who need it - and everyone "needs" this education. Not sure how but this should be built into our high school education system. These skills are far more valuable than physics, calculus, and chemistry, etc. but we don't even teach them. This is nuts.

The story does provide a glimmer of hope as the young lady has clearly experienced relationship issues in the past and has taken active steps to try and fix things between her and current boyfriend. Obviously another one of Marnia's converts (smiles).

Thanks for being here Marnia.


it's good for everyone to see the situation from all angles. It's so easy to get caught up in one point of view. Wink