Week 9 - Turning Point

Submitted by cyberbob82 on
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So today brings up 9 weeks since I started my plan of abstinence. This week marks a turning point in the recovery process for me. Before I go on, I need to describe the girl from salsa dancing. She's 21 years old, tall, blonde hair, green eyes (I love green eyes), great body, and cool as hell. She's really street smart and down to earth and can hold a conversation about heaps of things. She just wants to have fun, which is exactly what I need right now. I think it's safe to say my libido is back.

Stuff that happened since last Wednesday:

- Last Wednesday night I met up with the girl from salsa dancing and had sex, twice. I was pretty nervous and came quicker than I'd like but I really tried to make the session as slow and sensual as possible. Lots of caressing and touching and I went down on her and she liked it. I had no trouble getting hard, if anything I was too turned on. I'm still worried about not lasting long enough.

- My mate flew up from Sydney on the Friday and it was party weekend at my place. Lot's of drinking and smoking and flat out having a good time. The partying continued over Saturday and the girl came over again Saturday night. We ended up having sex twice that night, again on Sunday morning and again Sunday afternoon. I have to say this time I could really relax and enjoy myself and had a lot of fun. It's not often that I can say that about sex. Usually I'm too nervous to enjoy it. I tried to make everything as playful and sensual as possible, rather than focusing on the porn style of sex and it really works. I even busted out the candles. It was awesome. The best weekend that I had in a long time.

- Last night (Tuesday) I was really horny and tried to hook up another session with salsa girl but she had to study. I ended up doing a live cam session with this hot Russian girl, while masturbating. This is probably the closest I've come to looking at porn since I began this quest. I'll be sure to keep this thing as a one off. I've never actually done a cam show before and was keen to try it and it was only for about 15 minutes. I've promised myself that the next orgasm I have will be with a woman. No more cam shows ever. No more masturbation for the next little while.

I have to say that I think I've turned a corner. This doesn't mean I'm going to get complacent and revert to my old ways. My plan now is to stay away from porn. No more porn ever. I'll keep masturbation down to once a week if I feel the need. I'll keep socialising as much as possible. In the bedroom I'm trying to focus on getting in as much caressing and touching as possible, extended foreplay, tuning into the way the woman's body is responding. I'm also trying to communicate as openly as possible about sex and relationships.

I'll post some more in a week. Things are definitely looking up.

Marnia: You were right. When the time came, my libido was fine. It seems silly now. I don't know what I was worried about. Smile

Comments

Wow!

That's a fantastic report. Your hard work has definitely paid off. I'm really happy for you. Smile

Sounds like your body is not only healed, but like you've picked up a lot of great lovemaking tips, too. Wink

Watch out for that "chaser" problem. http://www.reuniting.info/do_you_need_a_chaser_after_sex When you burn off too many dopamine receptors, your brain, paradoxically, just wants more and more stimulation. Glad you intend to come up with a schedule.

Thanks for sharing your great news with us.

*big hug*

Sounds awesome! I hope to

Sounds awesome! :)
I hope to be at your stage soon!
I've been taking it steady with my girlfriend for a while now, mostly out of fear of not being able to
perform, do you have any tips you would be willing to share that got you over that hurdle?
I still worry about not being able to get hard, even though just kissing with my girlfriend gets me
well on my way! The thing is, while we're fondling with each other, I'm constantly checking to see
if I'm hard enough, but then I end up losing it the more I think about it.

Also, does orgasming after sex make you desire porn at all?

Your an inspiration! Good luck and keep it up! :)

...

[quote=20UK]Sounds awesome! :)
I hope to be at your stage soon!
I've been taking it steady with my girlfriend for a while now, mostly out of fear of not being able to
perform, do you have any tips you would be willing to share that got you over that hurdle?
I still worry about not being able to get hard, even though just kissing with my girlfriend gets me
well on my way! The thing is, while we're fondling with each other, I'm constantly checking to see
if I'm hard enough, but then I end up losing it the more I think about it.
[/quote]

Tips eh.

- Get in the right headspace and set the stage for an awesome session of sex. Dim the lights. Light candles. Put on some sexy music. Clean the space. Make sure the temperature is right. Make sure you won't be disturbed.
- Clean up. Make sure you're thoroughly clean and you've gone to the toilet beforehand. Brushed your teeth, showered, shaved, trimmed nails. Applied cologne. You should feel clean and awesome about yourself.
- Relax! This is the most important one I think. It's easy but it's hard at the same time. Just enjoy the moment. Slow down. Breathe slowly. Take your time. There's no rush.
- Focus all your attention on her on her and nothing else. Tease her. Be playful. Caress her everywhere. Explore her body. Put your fingers through her hair. Interlace your fingers with hers. Trace the outlines of her lips, hips, breasts, shoulders, ass, her back, her thighs...all those beautiful contours that make women sexy. Kiss her all over. Most important. Pay attention to her body, her moans, her movements, her breath, her heart beat. Breath in sync with her. Feel her arousal. Try and "feel" what she's experiencing. Concentrate completely on her body and how she's responding. Wrap her up in your arms and try to merge your two bodies. Find her secret spots. If you're doing this you won't have a chance to think about performance issues.

[quote=20UK]
Also, does orgasming after sex make you desire porn at all?
[/quote]

Not so much porn. But it makes me want to orgasm again soon.

Word of Caution

Your story is very inspiring you stud you :)

Just a word of caution from someone that's suffered negative impact from video chat. I was exclusively into amateur porn and amateur video chat and ended up with sexual dysfunction (ED, low libido, delayed orgasm). In my case I would probably rank the video chat as the bigger problem because I find it extra stimulating (over-stimulating) knowing it's a real person on the other end. I also ended up having the same problems performing on camera in a one-on-one that I have with an in-person partner. I think the novelty-seeking is especially strong because our primitive brain gets even more fooled by an interactive prospective partner on the other end since they seem even more like the real deal than a video.

Your wisdom

and experience are much appreciated here.

You're right that the issue isn't "Which is better/worse?" according to some intellectual scale. It's "Which gets my dopamine fix the highest?" That's what dysregulates the brain when there's too much stimulation.

...

Yeah I haven't used the video chat again and I don't plan on doing this. It's was more about curiosity. But I understand why you advise being careful.

positive evidence!?

Ok, this is promising, let me get this straight:

You, cyberbob82, had years of ED problems, needing manual stimulation to get hard before intercourse, then 9 weeks without P/M/O or fantasy and you had sex and feel happy about it. That's good. Now, at this point there was no ED? No need at all for manual stimulation? Or it was just way better than you were used to? How did your partner like it? OK I guess since the repetition, but still - could you get more information from her perspective?

Also, interesting to hear that amateur videos and chat had the same effect as "harder" porn for euphemism. So I guess that that was the most exciting type of stuff for you/that you could find?

It still makes no sense to me that liking something and enjoying it would make you like it less...or could it be mainly that the problem (at least for ED) is that pushing too specific a button too much narrows the range of conditions that can work as arousal triggers?

Week 6 for me atm, I guess things improve in waves, if they are improving. I guess overall I have a sense that they are, though I'm not sure how objective/reliable that is. I've read a couple of places that it takes 81 days for a sperm cell to mature, live and die, so it makes sense that if you've been abusing yourself excessively, it should take at least that long to catch up with yourself, so to speak. At least you can be sure that a shorter period won't be problematic. One author, Charles Runels, MD, talked about his own experiments with abstaining this long (restarting whenever wet dreams occurred) for the sake of his health, and experiencing a "second adolescence."

There are not many longitudinal studies on this stuff, I guess.

Interesting

Have a link to Runels' story?

To understand how something you like and enjoy can lead to *less* response from your brain, have a look at this article:

"Intoxicating Behaviors": http://www.reuniting.info/intoxicating_behaviors

Basically, if the "something" is hyper-stimulating compared to what our ancestors' brains evolved with...it's problematic for some of us.

Glad you're noticing some possible improvements. It's amazing how much time it can take the brain to bounce back. Personally, I doubt it has anything to do with sperm cells, but who can say for sure?

...

[quote=perceval]Ok, this is promising, let me get this straight:

You, cyberbob82, had years of ED problems, needing manual stimulation to get hard before intercourse, then 9 weeks without P/M/O or fantasy and you had sex and feel happy about it. That's good. Now, at this point there was no ED? No need at all for manual stimulation? Or it was just way better than you were used to? How did your partner like it? OK I guess since the repetition, but still - could you get more information from her perspective?
[/quote]

Well it was 8 weeks of no porn, masturbation, erotica and minimal fantasy. There's was one time I had an orgasm to a Thai massage girl, but other than that it was straight abstinence. There was no ED. The first time I had sex with salsa girl I was hard without her touching me downstairs. We had sex multiple times so on the 2nd and 3rd time I needed a little "help" but no ED to speak of. The 4th time we'd waited a few hours and I could get hard with no help just by being turned on. So I think it's safe to safe I'm getting legitimate, unassisted erections now.

I was using porn pretty much daily for years. I will say that last year around the end of the year, I had a decent attempt at quitting porn. But I was still masturbating and reading erotica during this time. This last effort is the first time I actually tried going without any orgasm or externally arousing stimuli and I feel that this is the key. In my opinion, total abstinence speeds the recovery process the most. I would also point out that I'm 28 and pretty healthy physically, emotionally and my diet is pretty clean. I don't smoke cigarettes. I do drink to excess on the weekends though. That's probably my one big vice.

I'm still not all the way there yet in terms of being happy with sex and my performance. But what I've realised is that sex is not a performance...it's about too people connecting and having fun. I think it's going to take quite a while to unlearn all the crap that I absorbed from watching porn, which is not what sex is about at all. I know what to focus on now though so I think that this is just a matter of time and practicing real sex with real women.

I was also experimenting with the following supplements and I believe they may have been beneficial. Probably the best for porn addiction recovery would be fish oil and l-tyrosine since they are meant to help with dopamine production.

- l-tyrosine (for Dopamine levels)
- fish oil (for Dopamine levels)
- tribulus terristus (for libido)
- ZMA (for testosterone)
- tongkat ali (for testosterone)
- gingko biloba (for improved circulation)

I can't swear by these but based on how I felt when on them and what I've read, I believe they might do some good.

As for "how did my partner like it?". I'm not trying to brag and I've never thought of myself as a stud, but you did ask. I'm quoting a text message here, "Hey... Thanks for inviting me last night....I had fun and the sex was awesome ...So do you think you will be able to keep up with me and satisfy my sexual appetite? :-P" So I'm pretty sure she enjoyed herself and so did I. I already explained to her never to fake orgasm with me because I didn't need the validation and never to do anything that didn't feel good for her. I think we're communicating pretty well in the bedroom and she seems happy.

[quote=perceval]
Also, interesting to hear that amateur videos and chat had the same effect as "harder" porn for euphemism. So I guess that that was the most exciting type of stuff for you/that you could find?
[/quote]

Well the chat was exciting but different to how I use to use porn. The chat I was viewing one girl the entire time and talking to her. When I use to use porn I'd have 5-10 windows of streaming video open at a time and bounce between them, which really upped the dopamine levels triggered by novel "partners". I could have found way more exciting stuff, but I've made the decision to never watch porn again. I guess some folk would classify a naked cam girl playing with dildos as porn. It was only once and I'm not planning to make a habit of it. It was a one off for me.

[quote=perceval]
It still makes no sense to me that liking something and enjoying it would make you like it less...or could it be mainly that the problem (at least for ED) is that pushing too specific a button too much narrows the range of conditions that can work as arousal triggers?
[/quote]

It makes sense to me. When you haven't eaten in a while, you're brain starts releasing dopamine which makes you crave food. This is a survival response by the limbic brain to encourage you to seek out food so the body doesn't starve to death. When you're full, your brain shuts this off and you no longer crave food. If you're constantly abusing this mechanism by binging on food, your brain lowers its sensitivity to dopamine and the associated triggers. This actually encourages you to binge more to get the same feeling. Porn works in the same way. Food and sex aren't bad, but if you binge, you'll upset your brain's natural dopamine levels and receptor count, and that's what causes addiction. I now think of porn as "junk food for the brain". Porn and junk food have a very similar effect on the brain as far as dopamine is concerned.

[quote=perceval]
Week 6 for me atm, I guess things improve in waves, if they are improving. I guess overall I have a sense that they are, though I'm not sure how objective/reliable that is. I've read a couple of places that it takes 81 days for a sperm cell to mature, live and die, so it makes sense that if you've been abusing yourself excessively, it should take at least that long to catch up with yourself, so to speak. At least you can be sure that a shorter period won't be problematic. One author, Charles Runels, MD, talked about his own experiments with abstaining this long (restarting whenever wet dreams occurred) for the sake of his health, and experiencing a "second adolescence."
[/quote]

Totally agree with the comment on things improving in waves. Recovery is not linear. But I'm willing to bet in a few more weeks you'll wake up one day and take a giant step forward out of the blue. Everything will just click. You just have to have faith in the process. I'm a believer. Just hang in there and good things will happen. I never made it to a wet dream. I had an externally stimulated orgasm before I got to that point. Part of me wishes I'd waited til I had a wet dream, just out of curiosity to see how long it would have taken. But then my goal is to have a healthy sex life again not to have wet dreams.

You're so close. I feel great things are just around the corner for you. 6 weeks is awesome. Keep going. Keep going! Smile

In my opinion, speed of

In my opinion, speed of recovery varies due to a number of factors

- how long you were watching porn/masturbating (hours a day and over the longer term).
- how "wrong" you perceive porn to be in your own mind (the more "wrong", the more dopamine is released, which compounds the problem).
- how exclusive your porn/masturbating was compared to other activities (e.g. sex with real partners).
- how much your porn viewing was escalating in terms of more hardcore and gonzo content.
- use of other aids to enhance feeling of orgasm (e.g. toys, practices like auto-erotic asphyxiation etc.).
- other factors that affect dopamine levels (exercise, diet, supplements, depression, drugs etc.).

I would also suggest the following are the methods for recovery listed in order of efficiency of recovery (provided you can stick to the plan).

1. No porn, no masturbation, no orgasm.
2. No porn, masturbation but no orgasm
3. No porn, no masturbation, orgasm by other means (e.g. with a partner)
4. No porn, masturbation to orgasm.
5. Tapering off porn, no masturbation, no orgasm.
6. Tapering off porn, masturbation but no orgasm
7. Tapering off porn, no masturbation, orgasm by other means (e.g. with a partner)
8. Tapering off porn, masturbation to orgasm.

I would imagine the difference between the first and last methods in terms of average recovery time could be the difference between 2-3 months to 2-3 years (or more).

Patience

Hello again, I'm at 7 weeks and change, but I don't feel very much of what I want to feel yet.
I'm hoping to hear cyberbob82's week 11 update, to know if things are still back to normal and functioning perfectly -- that would be encouraging!
I'm concerned as to whether cyberbob82's nutritional supplementation confuses the issue of whether it was the abstinence or the supplementation that enabled the final push into full (?) recovery.
I don't mean to sound bleak, your encouragement is very inspiring, I'm just wanting to get both the results of a "cure" and an understanding of what actually works.
Hope all is still good!

You're right that

all variables have to be considered. I think age does too. How close are you to Cyberbob's age (28)? I suspect it's easier to bounce back the younger one is.

Sorry you're not seeing the results you want yet. *fingers crossed*

...

[quote=Marnia]all variables have to be considered. I think age does too. How close are you to Cyberbob's age (28)? I suspect it's easier to bounce back the younger one is.

Sorry you're not seeing the results you want yet. *fingers crossed*[/quote]

I don't agree on the age correlation necessarily. I think it's more to do with overall health and young people tend to be healthier, but not necessarily.

I would point out again that:

I don't smoke
I am fit - I exercize every day
I eat well - no fried crap, no take away, low GI stuff, veges, just good clean food
I have low body fat
I have no mental issues or depression
I lift weights (which really helps with testosterone and sexual health)
I'm not on any medication that might affect sexual health
I do take supplements which I've already listed.

I firmly believe, anyone who is trying to recover from any health affliction is slowing everything down by not first sorting out diet and exercize. That's just common sense for me. Specially, if you have problems with ED, arousal etc and you smoke, don't exercize, you're kidding yourself if you don't get that sorted before you think about other remedies. Everyone wants a pill these days to solve everything, but it's really like trying to bail water out of a sinking Titanic.

Well...

I am a year younger than cyberbob82, and have 2 years w/o porn, then 3 + 3 + 7 weeks now with no PMO or fantasy, and the former two 3-week periods were both interrupted by intercourse, not masturbation. Getting pretty heavy pressure to stop this project and have more regular types of intimacy in my relationship, Karezza/Tantric has been pretty much ruled out a long time ago as uninteresting to my gf, so I don't know if I will be able to go on without ejaculating. My gf has no faith in this experiment and I guess feels this is worse for the relationship and for her than sex which she is nevertheless dissatisfied with. Catch-22...

*sigh*

That's too bad. It always makes me sad when women won't at least give something an honest try for three weeks. Has she read Cupid's Poisoned Arrow? I wrote it with stubborn people in mind...'cause I can be one m'self. Smile

...

[quote=perceval]I am a year younger than cyberbob82, and have 2 years w/o porn, then 3 + 3 + 7 weeks now with no PMO or fantasy, and the former two 3-week periods were both interrupted by intercourse, not masturbation. Getting pretty heavy pressure to stop this project and have more regular types of intimacy in my relationship, Karezza/Tantric has been pretty much ruled out a long time ago as uninteresting to my gf, so I don't know if I will be able to go on without ejaculating. My gf has no faith in this experiment and I guess feels this is worse for the relationship and for her than sex which she is nevertheless dissatisfied with. Catch-22...[/quote]

It might be time to put on your scuba diving outfit and get down to some serious muff diving. It might save your relationship. Your girl will get taking care of and you can stick with the program.