Introducing bonding behaviours to a (completely) new partner

Submitted by Mael on
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First, thanks for making this site and writing your book, Marnia. Your theories make a lot of sense to me, and seem to explain many of my earlier experiences.

This spring I ended my two year relationship with my previous girlfriend, after *surprise surprise* a lot of emotional friction and missing attraction between us.
After going on a crazy porn/masturbation binge I started searching for information on porn and emotional health, and stumbled upon this site like many in that situation seem to do. And so after reading a lot I went cold turkey for three weeks, not really noticing much difference in anything. After three weeks I slipped back into my pre-relationship pattern of relieving myself once or twice a week, still not really noticing any difference in how I was feeling.
Fast forward to september, I bought Cupid's Poisoned Arrow, which I am reading a couple of tens of pages a day. I decided to try abstaining from orgasm again, and I'm now on my third week, and really noticing differences in my general outlook on life, stress levels, confidence, general chattyness, and how others respond to me. Of course, all of this may be imagination or placebo effects, or just the result of having a lot more distance from the breakup, but I really feel better about just about everything.

I have recently met a woman who of course, being new in my life, seems quite exciting and wonderful. I am trying to focus on actually getting to know her, and not move quickly into sex as I've done (too many times) earlier. This may seem strange to some of you, but I'm not really sure how I would go about getting to know her and bonding with her without things progressing to sex. I've used sex as a way to get to know someone earlier, and I'm afraid that if I'm not careful, I'll end up going that way without even thinking about it.

I'm afraid if I bring up bonding behaviours and karezza she'll freak out and bolt. I'm not sure how to explain all this without being to esoteric. Especially since I've never really experienced the benefits, and I'm not sure it'll even work. I've just read some book and now I want to quit having orgasms. Seems weird and over-analyzing - I mean, most couples have orgasms and do just fine, right?

Anyway, my plan so far for our saturday dinner (first date) is to just do my best to postpone sex (stay out of the bedroom!), and focus on cuddling and kissing without things heating up too much. Maybe go for a walk, that should be both safe and give us a great chance to talk.

Rereading my post I realize my whole situation must seem quite absurd, most people don't even consider sex on the first date as an option, and I worry about how to avoid it :) But meeting a lot of women before my two year relationship, that was just what I did, and it's become quite ingrained as an expectation.
I guess I don't really have a question, I just needed to vent some of my thoughts, and this forum seems like a very tolerant and safe place to do so. Any thoughts or suggestions are very welcome, though, I'm very much uncertain about how to go about this!

Apologies if I've placed the post inappropriately, and for any strange wording (english is not my first language) =)

Thanks for your post

And thanks for experimenting with such unfamiliar ideas with an open mind. It will be interesting to see what you notice as you go forward. At first, I really doubted what I was learning. The effects are subtle, probably because they influence behavior so indirectly (via brain chemical balance).

The problem of "enlightening" a partner is a tricky one, especially today because hopping into bed for sex seems such an Obviously Right Idea. If she reads English well, you could tell her about the bizarre book you read by an American woman and ask her what she thinks of it...just as a way of gauging her response. (American's are always doing bizarre things, after all. Smile ) Who knows? She may like the idea. And if she hates it, then that will also be useful information, too.

After years of listening, I do not recommend trying to explain the ideas to her yourself. These ideas don't make sense to ANYone at their first hearing. There's a lot of natural resistance, and it gets projected onto the person talking about them. Better she project it onto me than you! Also, a book takes a slower, more redundant (at least in the case of my book Wink ) approach, so people have time to allow their resistance to arise and have their questions addressed.

When we got together, my husband said something that I think you guys can use in this situation. It was something like, "I don't mind taking a slow approach because I've noticed that when I rushed my relationships (sexually speaking), they tended to be short and end badly. I hope this relationship will last." Those weren't his exact words, but those were the key concepts. The challenge from the woman's perspective is that if you aren't trying to jump on her, she doubts her attractiveness. By letting her know you hope the relationship will bloom, she can relax because she knows you find her attractive.

That said, women who are hooked on vibrators or porn, are gonna be like guys hooked on porn/masturbation...very needy and insistent and very unable to think in terms of the big picture. So if she's not ready, don't blame yourself!

You are enabled to blog if you want to move this thread to your "own" space. (Find "My blog" in left-hand column.) Your English seems to be better than any of ours, so no apologies needed. Wink

Does she like science?

If so, she might like Cupid. It also has a 3-week program in the back of affectionate exchanges. They are a nice way to start a new union. No intercourse until week three, and a very gentle approach. Just a thought....

If she's not interested in science, you might both like the Richardsons' books. They're based on Osho's version of tantra. You can read about one of them here:

this says it all

"I'm afraid if I bring up bonding behaviours and karezza she'll freak out and bolt."

yeah, you might not be 'with it' and not a 'real (douchebag) man' if you bring it up. wouldn't want to do that now would ya?

I'm impressed, personally.

I think the idea of a man not wanting to jump in the sack with me, and yet who makes it clear that he finds me attractive and is interested in the long-term, instead of fucking and moving on, is the best, most ideal kind of relationship out there.

Someone said in an earlier thread something about sex not being the focus of the entire relationship, but just a PART. This thought has stuck with me a lot, and I am grateful for whoever said it. Since my partner came back a couple of weeks ago (I cut if off with him about 6 weeks ago, as he was still interested in seeing other people while sexually active with me), I have focused on this exact thing - making the other aspects of our relationship more meaningful. It seems like a whole new ball game.

Sex is so easy to fall into when two people share chemistry, but that chemistry can so dramatically alter into something that triggers repulsion. Balance is key. A theory I think I believe in is to only have sex when you just can not help it, when there is absolutely no way around it, and to not use it as a way to pass the time or just get off. I think if we do that, we'd have a lot less sex and it would be a lot more satisfying. I know that I've had the most intense love making ever a couple of times since he's come back, and that a few of the times it has been less than mind-blowing. The incredible times left me feeling high for days, and were such sensual, loving, whole body-mind-spirit orgasms; the other times have been purely fucking. I am going to take Marnia's advice and leave CPA out where he has easy access to it, and see if he feels inspired to read it. I know he has the hangovers - perhaps not as intensely as I suffer, but he tells me he's "wiped-out" too often the days after we are together. I know he's also a believer in masterbation, though he doesn't use porn (one battle averted!), believing the popular mythology that it is normal to "clean the pipes" daily. But when I told him that I no longer masterbate in order to save all my sexual energy for him, he seemed quite pleased.

Thanks, Marnia

It has been so wonderful to be back with him. It was a real leap for me to hold my ground and not settle, and therefor, a very good feeling when he said that he wanted to see only me. The month of not seeing one another, though really sad for me to let him go, gave me back my strength in myself, especially since I was going through a tough time physically (back pain from sex, actually), and having to move house from a place I loved to a place that is kind of a dump in comparison. Making it through that time without him reaffirmed that I can do just fine without him, but having him in my life *is* very special. I cherish him. He is naturally such an affectionate and sensual lover that it doesn't seem like such a long shot for him to be into Karezza, but it's that habitual masterbation that he, like most of the modern world, is hooked on, so time will tell if the orgasm over abundance can be tamed a bit. I think the rewards are worth it, personally. One of the times that we've been together was very much like what Snowy Owl has described before, like Light radiating up my core. Even well after it was over, I felt Light shining throughout my body. We both giggled when I told him it was like a brilliant sunrise starting in my vagina and spreading throughout my being - full of bright, brilliant colors like white light, gold, dazzling pinks, purples, oranges... Sex can be such a portal to other realms... It seems such a pity to use it for anything less.

hooray for penny

"I think the idea of a man not wanting to jump in the sack with me, and yet who makes it clear that he finds me attractive and is interested in the long-term, instead of fucking and moving on, is the best, most ideal kind of relationship out there."

Penny, you've added to the 0.0000000000000000000001% of women who think instead of following instinct or fashion, lol! congrats!

@ freedom

i don't claim they are that bad but society gives them carte blanche and a halo. so it is up to somebody to rain on that parade. guys are not so perfect of course, we are reminded constantly of our evil and without disclaimer no less. ah, the truth...........

I love hokey

[quote=rayjay]that was quite a hokey performance with a lot of exaggeration but nevertheless.....[/quote]

I like sappy, too. I don't think enough cred is given to the two.

the hate card

anytime one is close to truth he must obviously be an 'ist' of some sort. these buzzwords are in their final days, enjoy them while they last.

as far as matelessness is concerned, i'm doing my no cumming thing and therefore do not ask any girls out. also implied in your comment is the meme of "well one must supplicate and obey the rules or else you'll be deprived a mate haha!" which is also common to men who buck the system. can it be more obvious. so much for the 'be yourself' nonsense that the lady teachers taught us in the 80's. oh well, no matter, buzzwords notwithstanding things that can't last forever won't guys. this is a lie among so many others, they will collapse. all bs comes to an end. i'll be curious to see how many especially ladies, will jump ship when a new system arises and act like they were always like this. now that'll be a chuckle.

good woman

[quote=freedom]Why can't you go out and not cum? A good woman will make that easier as long as you restrain yourself.[/quote]

ah yes the mythical good woman will do everything. c'mon dude, listen to yourself. where are they, huh? they are so few maybe the petered out by know. that ain't an issue and wasn't what i was talking about anyway. would a good woman alter the fact that when a good point is made one is an 'ist'? women don't make reality go away.

There are good women out

There are good women out there even if they are hard to find. I didn't say she will do everything. If anything, the good women might do less, but I digress. No one said your ideal was easy to find or that you won't encounter some others on the way.

A women won't make anything go away, but your viewpoints might shift from a connection.

How did you get to where you are? Women won't bite even at their worst. You might be holding yourself back by refusing to try to connect.


i can't get my point across. no, it's impossible. viewpoints are not based on women. if one's viewpoint is accurate then how would a woman shift it? and if she would shift it is that good? consider these things. how i got to where i am has nothing to do with women. i'm not afraid of them. the original point i made is that when one makes a prescient observation, buzzwords are trotted out to reign the offender in. this doesn't happen otherwise. the implications are that if you notice x, then you are y. this is meant to quell. that's all i said and it wasn't addressed in the least but rather the entire focus has been shifted to this. i give up. fine. whatever. i can't do otherwise.

Maybe I've lost track of

Maybe I've lost track of what happened here.

Your current perception is that it matters that there is this labeling pattern or that you are being labeled. Maybe that process isn't as significant as you think. It also might not matter if you are correct in your observation. What difference does it make either way? We are a labeling society for better or worse. That's got as much to do with men as women.

A woman might help shift your priorities and perceptions of what is important.

good heavens

i already gave up, but let me come out of retirement for a moment.

guy, it is not labeling that is the issue. the label is intended to muffle 'sinful' comments by declaring that "you say this because you 'hate' and are therefor to be punished" and thereby puts the onus on the accused to prove absence of the alleged 'hate' and shifts thus everyone away from the observation. as has happened here. as you mentioned you lost track of what happened here. that's the effect from that one sigle 'ist'. that is why it exists. now from that it leads to this. and the solution of course is to not fight this nonsense when necessary and focus on continually accepting all attacks and degredation because it doesn't matter.i can't explain it better than that.

now, i resume giving up.

My apology to Mael as we're

My apology to Mael as we're way off topic.

I've either missed some nuance or missed something in the thread indentations such that I'm not following. You're focused on being defensive to the point that it isn't clear what is being defended. Who created that confusion? Was that the "ist" or the response? You realize the "ist" was in jest. I don't see it being used the way you are perceiving it. At most it suggested a possibly skewed perception. You don't have to prove anything here. It makes no difference to me if you despise women. I sense that isn't the case.

oh lord

this is why i gave up. ugh. i don't despise anybody. it doesn't have to be used in a certain way. the entrance of it does it's own work. i'm not defensive. why must everything be "defensive?" the confusion is created by silly buzzwords which cause a point to be submerged and thus leading to explanations that go way off topic. i may need to surrender to domestication, i just can't supplicate enough.

back to giving up.

rayjay wrote:it is not

[quote=rayjay]it is not labeling that is the issue. the label is intended to muffle 'sinful' comments by declaring that "you say this because you 'hate' and are therefor to be punished" and thereby puts the onus on the accused to prove absence of the alleged 'hate'[/quote]

Sounds defensive to me unless you're just playing games. All those value laden words.


chief, are you serious? i'm playing games??? so now explanation=defensive? you make my point for me.

giving up resumed.


noticing that one is an 'ist' whenever a good point is made or acknowledged is not a perception issue Marnia. 'isms' are how one is reigned in when veering from the status quo. as far as mates i told you what i'm doing. that doesn't mean i've never been with any girls or anything, i am attempting a different path that's all. my perception is and always has been keen. i am in no position now for connecting with any women anyway.