the diifference between tantra and karezza?

Submitted by TheZone on
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I was reading this article: http://www.newbrainnewworld.com/?Awakening_of_Kundalini:Tantric_Sex

It seemed very similar to karezza. My understanding from Marnia's book is that tantra was different from karezza, in that it was still focused on a type of orgasm rather than none at all. Then again I haven't read all the Marnia's book yet, but I've read some of a book on Karezza which describes it just like tantra is in the above link, and even suggests that karezza is a different type of orgasm.

I'm confused. The difference between non-excitatory sex as described in the above link and non-orgasmic. And the many different perspectives or definitions on orgasm. Isn't ALL pleasure excitatory, and somewhat "orgasmic" by some definition?

Are there just different types of tantric sex, ie, some that are more similar to "karezza" some not at all?

Does Marnia's book have the specific method of karezza in her book or it just talks about it?

Tantra

TheZone,

Most people talk think Tantra=sex - it's not, it's a belief system or a religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra.

Karezza, while an 'act', is about being and staying in love with your partner through copious application of physical and verbal affection, and to avoid or limit orgasm to prevent the post-orgasm hangover and subsequent Coolidge effect. Many of the principle concepts in tantra (meditation, mindfulness, belly breathing, 'directing energy', sex with little movement) can all be useful when learning the practice of Karezza. But one doesn't have to believe in the whole "woo" of Tantra to get the benefit of Karezza.

There are a number of good articles in the wisdom section.

Here's one: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/diana_richardson_tantra

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/classic_tantra_vairagya_neotantrism

http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/what_is_karezza

Quizure

In love all the contradiction of existence merge themselves and are lost. Only in love are unity and duality not at variance. Love must be one and two at the same time. Only love is motion and rest in one. Our heart ever changes its place till it finds love, and then it has its rest… Bondage and liberation are not antagonistic in love, for love is most free and at the same time most bound. Rabindranath Tagore

yea sorry, I meant tantric

yea sorry, I meant tantric sex, or sexual practices, or dual cultivation practices. Different from Mantak Chia's stuff though.

Then there is of course... the difference between avoiding ejaculation, and avoiding orgasms altogether...

All this confusion is probably just a result of my never having had any REAL sexual experience with women, thus resulting of a lack of understanding of sex and sexual energies, and also thus limiting me from ever even beginning to understand sex and sexual energies because it's a blockage that needs to have been cleared first before being able to even clear it in the first place if you know what I mean.

That virgin "lack of a first hump experience" just sucks. It is the biggest paradox of all. Without first experiences, as a male, all opportunities become lost it seems. People don't know just how messed up this problem really is. It can cut off all potential opportunities, by virtue of being a male virgin, repressed sexually inexperience/uneducated/underdeveloped and "affectionate lacked childhood" individual, at an "old" age.

Don't harp so much on the

Don't harp so much on the virginity thing. I used to sometimes. Then I was offered (closer to begged) to have sex. It didn't seem the right thing to do for a variety of reasons and I'm glad I didn't despite having occasional doubt (especially when the offer pops up again due to my circumstances). If you are here, you are likely seeking much more than just sex and sex alone would not leave you in a better position than you are in now. Value your virginity...it's not a disease.

There are issues with being a virgin, but they are not as great as they seem and almost all in your mindset. A brand new hammer is just as good at hitting a nail as a well used one. We're trying to hit the nail in the right spot, with precision, straight, etc. where these challenges depend on the correct motivations and mindset, not only experience. What you seek depends on the person using the hammer, not the hammer itself. You have to get beyond yourself in order to emerge in a better position. For all you know, your perfect gal is a virgin too and wouldn't want you any other way.

Please don't start ranting again, Zone

About tantra, as explained in my essay on it in Cupid, there are many flavors of tantra, and some are, indeed, very close to karezza.

I'm sorry you have made the virginity issue into such a big thing. Gary said he could sympathize with that, so it must be a common obsession among men. UnderDog solved it by hiring a prostitute.

How's school? Are you socializing more?

a common "obsession"? OK you

a common "obsession"?

OK you might call it an obsession. Whether it's justified though is not the question, but it does occur commonly in men for a real reason.

Thanks, and prostitution is not going to help. In fact it may make things worse.

Because the point is, it's not just about sex. It's about love (and sex but it encompasses that too, and it's beyond sex), though it's common for in this society to focus on sex first before getting into love, but also seperate from love, and indeed seperate from love (as if there need be a seperation from love)

Well, it seems the tantric

Well, it seems the tantric sex described in those links are quite different from the tantric sex talked about in the "Wisdom of the Ages: Hinduism" chapter of Marnia's book. Tantra seemd to be described as some wanton animalistic lusty passionate 'non-ejaculatory sex' but still orgasmic, or at least some kind of orgasm, whether it be whole body, etc.

edit:

Well this section is a bit hard for me to understand. I guess towards the end it's more about the tantricc sex described in the above links. For me this type of tantric sex is similar to karezza.

Ya know,

definitions just don't always fall into neat little boxes. The same terms get used for different things, and vice versa.

I'm glad you see that what you really want is love. What are you doing to find it? Don't use your virginity as (yet another) rationalization for not taking constructive steps.

Are you socializing? How is school? Did you find a counselor?

virginity is a real

virginity is a real limitation in men and especially as you get older, the older you get the more of a perv and sexual predator you are viewed as by the general society. This becomes quite a problem obviously. Whether you view it as mere rationalization or not, this limitation does occur for a reason, and of course, perhaps mainly in this and similar societies.

It is also said.. that for one to be able to really be happy, and even develop spiritually, one needs to master the basal chakras and it's manifestations in life. This means, that for one to be fully spiritually developed and to live as a self realized person one needs to first master his sexual energies. Maslow's hierarchy of needs. One needs to learn to be self sustainable.

Since you deleted my last post...

I shd add. That it's true. As a male virgin the older you get the harder it is. This does not happen as much for women in this society. Sexuality can be used against men but not as much for women. Male virginity is less desirable than a female virgin, and is usually less desirable than an average male, at least in this society. It really is far more common for males to have this problem than a female. It is much harder for men to get sex than a woman in the first place. Unless you're an alpha male. Sooner or later, for a woman opportunity comes, and a woman does not have to be perfect at all. But a man does, and this all can be abused. And this is fact.

I'm not generalizing, this is all fact. Look at statistics.

Complaining isn't going to

Complaining isn't going to help. You have to change your mindset and be patient. Otherwise, you are going to chase any woman away.

Virginity is not the problem. You can fix that easily with a prostitute. That will change nothing in your life.

There are lot's of women out there that would love a virgin. You are undervaluing your uniqueness because you are not looking at the female perspective of tenderness, restraint, commitment, etc. that you inherently bring as a virgin. You might feel inferior amongst males, but females might view you as superior. Regardless, you are looking for one accepting female. Who cares what the rest of society thinks.

When I say virginity I don't

When I say virginity I don't mean simply "lack of sex".

I also mean virginity in all its aspects. It's metaphorical applications as well. Thats why obviously my problem is not going to be solved with a prostitute, because it is not just a 'lack of sex' but that and much more .To me, sex shd not be separate from love.

You are not the only one in

You are not the only one in this world in this position. I understand what you mean by virginity. Yes, in some ways we (including myself) might be effeminate and like babies. I don't think this is from virginity, but rather what we have done to ourselves over the years. It is also largely mindset, especially as we get better and move on. Focus on your good qualities. You'll be fine with practice. You'll be more accepting of her as person because of your struggle. It takes but one girl and she can come at you fast and out of the blue. Not all women want the guy you think you are not. I've seen women dump the clear superstar in favor of guys just like you and me. High flying egos are not attractive. Let yourself heal. It takes time. Practice your skill-set in the meantime. You are right to seek love. That shows you are more ready for sex than some of the guys who only want sex as their real life porn.