♥ - The need for acceptance on the path to wholesomeness

Submitted by freedom on
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Forked from http://www.reuniting.info/node/4836 .

[quote=rediscovered]

Very recently (actually, since my lovemaking experiences last weekend), I have had some thoughts about men and their innate, biological, spiritual need to be fully "accepted" (meaning, inside a welcoming vagina for extended periods of time) and to have that experience be one they can return to again and again with love and trust and with someone who loves all of them.

I'm starting to see porn-viewing as a futile attempt to somehow capture the yin or yoni of a woman when there is no partner present...and yet, it will never be satisfying because there is absolutely no substitute for the actual experience. But they continue to try and try until they have lost the reality of what being with a real woman can be like. And that is how I see all these posts here on the forum are interconnected.

The people who use porn are desperately trying to get to that place of wholeness, but cannot break the already broken cycle.

And how many men are blessed to have the pleasure of a woman who accepts all of them and welcomes them into their bodies with love and trust? I would have to guess there aren't many.

If you did have a partner like that, would you ever leave? I'm thinking probably not. There would be absolutely no reason, because you would have reached nirvana with your partner and there would be no reason to search elsewhere.

rediscovered[/quote]

Do you think men need acceptance more than women? My experience is that females also need acceptance, but maybe I'm missing something in the female view. Or are you saying that women are in the best position to give a man acceptance?

Is an aspect of karezza, allowing time for the conscious to feel accepted?

Other than plainly being accepting, what can we do to indicate acceptance in a non-sexual way?

Comments

Both male and female need

Both male and female need acceptance, but it seems much harder for the men to find it...and this probably sounds crazy, but I think a man needs the female energy/life source more than a woman needs the opposite...I'm thinking it stems from us...we already have it...men need and want it.

Thinking this way makes me feel very compassionate and understanding of men and it also makes me see their need for a woman's body in a whole different light.

I may be wrong, but my lover's reaction to our "new" way of lovemaking (prompted by reading Diana Richardson's books) has given me an insight into how he feels when he is inside me for prolonged periods of time with me being as open and accepting as I can be.

I'm hoping to blog about my experience later...it's probably old hat to others, but a whole new world to me!

rediscovered

agree and am curious...

I agree that both men and women need acceptance for sure. Much of the healing in my relationships have come from two wonderful friendships with women who have supported me through the years. One is a co-worker, the other is my therapist. Both are sexually attractive, both are attracted to me, but our ore-existing boundaries gave us the safe space to explore my feelings without triggering all my abandonment stuff so acutely.

[quote]Both male and female need acceptance, but it seems much harder for the men to find it...[/quote]

It's not my experience that it's harder for men to find it. But that's just my experience. Once I got over my shame about sex and expressed willingness to experience emotional intimacy, the floodgates of available women showed up.

I think it's probably much easier for a woman to find sex than men, but to find a man who has grown spiritually, emotionally, and has matured into the kind of partner that can give the kind off acceptance you're looking for? I don't know. I'd speculate that far more men have unhealthy attitudes about sex than women.

Could be just my biases, though...
Jerry

Jerry, I'm not sure, but I

Jerry, I'm not sure, but I think I may be using the word "acceptance" in a different way~

I'm coming from the sexual, uninhibited, fully-giving your total self side--men seem to be so good at that part whereas women tend to hold back and never fully let go (and I know I am generalizing and I don't like that, but I'm just speaking from what I know of myself and my women friends~~so many of my friends could not care less about sex, let alone letting go!). And that is what I mean by it seems to be harder for men to be "accepted" by women. I mean fully allowed into their bodies with no holding back, mentally or physically.

Does that make sense? I'm not good at expressing myself lately, so sorry 'bout that!

rediscovered

Aaahh. I see. Thanks for

Aaahh. I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Your women friends don't care about sex??!! I can't think of one woman who doesn't care about sex, let alone having several. Is this a demographic thing? Or perhaps a cultural thing?

Jerry

You are correct, a lot of my

You are correct, a lot of my women friends do not care about sex. Most are married, with children (although a couple are older and single by choice) and tell me they could live without it.

I was that way, too, for most of my marriage. I had not one iota of desire.

My opinion is women marry for lots of other reasons other than sexual attraction...and it catches up with us eventually...you can only convince yourself for so long you are sexually attracted to someone if you are not.

Just my opinion, though~

If you are young and out in the dating world, it will seem to you that women are very interested in sex, I'm pretty sure of that!

rediscovered

wow

[quote]My opinion is women marry for lots of other reasons other than sexual attraction...and it catches up with us eventually...you can only convince yourself for so long you are sexually attracted to someone if you are not.[/quote]

I feel sad hearing this, both for the women and the men. I'm feeling something really triggered inside of me...I'm absolutely petrified at the thought that a woman might marry me and lead me to believe that she's sexually attracted to me if she really isn't :(

How does this happen? Are the men aware that the women aren't really into the sex? And how can I prevent this from happening to me? Now my mind is racing through all my relationships and wondering if those women weren't sexually attracted to me and were actually just "convincing themself".

Jerry

Well, don't get

Well, don't get married--JUST KIDDING!! (sort of!)

I don't know the answers to your questions, Jerry, but I wish I did! I just think sometimes women look for certain attributes in men (would he be a good father, a good husband, a good friend to grow old with, etc.) and might be very sexually attracted in the beginning, but over time, they lose that feeling of needing sex. It's a real conundrum. Of course, the same thing can happen from the woman's point-of-view, too--she wants sex with her husband and he is no longer interested in her that way--it happens both ways (although I personally don't know of anyone with this situation).

Perhaps with Marnia's approach you could keep your sex life alive forever...it would be interesting to see a couple *start* their marriage this way and see what happens.

And I don't think the women who lose interest were being deceitful in any way in the beginning of their marriage--I just think it's easy to see love and marriage as this big romantic bubble and you can get caught up in the idea of it rather than the reality.

The reason I say this is because I loved my husband dearly (we were each other's best friend) and we did have some good times sexually in the beginning. But looking back, I know that I was never "myself" with him the way I am now (and I've only been the way I am now with the man I am with now and one other person--a long, long time ago)--if a woman doesn't feel free and open and uninhibited in the beginning, I'm afraid it may never be that way. So perhaps that is something you can look for?

Wish I had better answers!

rediscovered

yes...this makes me feel better

[quote]But looking back, I know that I was never "myself" with him the way I am now (and I've only been the way I am now with the man I am with now and one other person--a long, long time ago)--if a woman doesn't feel free and open and uninhibited in the beginning, I'm afraid it may never be that way. So perhaps that is something you can look for?[/quote]

Yes, that's something I really look for. I'm not sure of your age or background, but I think I might be younger than you if you're friends have been married for some time and have kids. (I'm in my early 30s.) One thing that my generation grew up with is a pretty over-sexed, over-stimulated, sex-positive sex culture. The song, "Let's Talk about Sex", was on the radio when I was 12. There are some positives and negatives to this. On the negative side is the "hook-up culture" that Marnia posted about and quoted me in...but on the positive side, women have always been free and uninhibited in their sex lives with me.

At least, the ones that wanted to be having sex with me Wink

Oral sex in the shower, in the car, furry handcuffs in bed, wild, loud sex noises...these are all things that the people in my age group consider to be a normal part of sex. I was talking to a friend of mine in his early 60s, and he told me that his wife has never given him oral sex. Apparently, it was taboo at one time?!?! The idea that a woman can't orgasm is somewhat mysterious to us. Every girl I know knows how to make herself come.

So, as you can imagine, after reading your first post, you had me worrying that all of these sexual acts were simply manipulative guises where women were pretending to be sexual with me in an attempt to enjoy all the other things I can offer in a relationship :(

But now I'm thinking (and please correct me if I'm wrong), that while you're marriage wasn't "sexless" at the beginning, you and your first husband weren't expressing the full range of your sexual desires. Desires for each other, or just desires in general. And that your friendship was really the primary connection between the two of you. Am I correct here?

My generation might have the opposite problem. We're pretty comfortable expressing ourselves sexually. But emotional intimacy is a serious problem...a SERIOUS problem with our generation. E-mail, facebook, texting...we're great at interacting from a distance. But face-to-face emotional exchanges are really comfortable for us. I saw that in my last relationship, where a woman felt totally comfortable sending me topless photos, and eventually fully nude photos over the phone 3 months into the relationship. But it took until 6 months into the relationship that she confessed that she felt really insecure about her appearance.

In any case, intuitively I see the value in Karezza. I'm not necessarily sure I would be aim for total abstinence from orgasm in a relationship. But I can definitely see us going through 2-week on, 2-week off cycles. We'll have to see the next time I'm in a relationship.

It's interesting how sexual attitudes have changed through the years, I think it's important that we talk about that somewhat. For me, it's easy to think that our sexual attitudes and experiences are normal and project them onto everyone else. I'll have to keep that in check.

Jerry

Well, here is where it gets

Well, here is where it gets tricky, no matter what your age (I am 50).

The girls who are giving oral in the shower and wearing fuzzy handcuffs...that is probably just the equivalent of my generation's going to a fraternity party, drinking Everclear, and having a one-night stand with some guy you don't know. It's what you do.

Having sex (any form) is so different from intimacy. And intimacy is what you have to have (I feel) to have a true, lasting, sexual life with someone.

The women your age could be acting the way they *think* they should be acting because that's all they know.

Being uninhibited with your lover does not mean doing taboo things in bed. It means being able to fully give of yourself, your emotions, your love, your touch, your words, as well as being able to say what you are feeling at all times. It takes a certain amount of trust, a chemical attraction, as well as a spiritual connection to have that, in my opinion.

Finding a person who has all those qualities in common is rare...but worth the wait!

rediscovered

that's what I want :)

[quote]Having sex (any form) is so different from intimacy. And intimacy is what you have to have (I feel) to have a true, lasting, sexual life with someone.

The women your age could be acting the way they *think* they should be acting because that's all they know.

Being uninhibited with your lover does not mean doing taboo things in bed. It means being able to fully give of yourself, your emotions, your love, your touch, your words, as well as being able to say what you are feeling at all times. It takes a certain amount of trust, a chemical attraction, as well as a spiritual connection to have that, in my opinion.[/quote]

Cheers to that. I won't settle for anything less... :)

It's so important to realize

what men and women really have to offer each other...that selfless acceptance and affection. For me, the recognition that what you have is "Miracle Gro" for the opposite sex is a real self-esteem builder. It corrects your thinking.

If you're a woman, you realize your physical assets aren't the "Miracle Gro," although your smile and touch certainly can be. If you're a man, you realize that your inner sunshine is what really helps women bloom, and not your material assets or muscles.

When you really get it, and start to see the power of this force to inspire positive change as you share it selflessly...there's nothing like it. It actually shifts your perception of everyone.

In fact, you begin to look for the wilted plant that you can water in everyone you meet. Life becomes a lot richer and more satisfying. And your own inner plant begins to perk up too.

I've learned

not to help unless asked. Occasionally I violate my own rule and it's almost always a waste of effort. However, the subtler forms of help, such as an encouraging smile, genuine compliment or friendly eye contact don't take much effort and are almost universally appreciated, and, I think, beneficial.

Marnia is like a perfect mama

You, Marnia, are so perfect and nurturing. That's why I come beack to this forum, even though it can be a bit scary here with all that porn stuff I am not used to...You are so understanding and so nurturing to everyone. We can enjoy it and learn from you!

*blush*

Thanks for hanging around. It can be good to gain compassion for others' struggles, which you may not have had an opportunity to do elsewhere. Smile