♥ISO: Term and Transformation

Submitted by Feng on
Printer-friendly version

This is quite a step for me. A few years ago while exchanging Reiki sessions that increasingly generated Second Chakra energy my partner and I kept reminding ourselves that it wasn't about sex.

I began to feel intense feelings of transference/countertransference for her. Despite what we said in waking life, my dreams and fantasies burned red hot! John Ryan Haule's The Love Cure: Therapy Erotic & Sexual at least cataloged it for a clothed setting for me.

But I really didn't want physical sex and much as something else ... I still haven't a term for it.

But to describe it: I am nude under the massage sheet, my partner lays her hands on me, perhaps massaging, perhaps not, just 'bonding' or sharing energy like Reiki or Mari-El.

I get hard, and at some stage allow the drapery to fall revealing it to her.

We continue as before, all the while I'm talking about whatever. The orgonic energy builds and I sense myself dissolving barriers to my fuller enjoyment of life in general, the particular sphere under discussion in particular. I leave these sessions ecstatic for weeks. I never jerk off or get a hand job.

Is there a term for this? How do I find women open to it? I tried ads on craigslist, and frankly, it would have been easier to get laid or a hand job than explain, persuade responders about what I really needed.

Could I pay a professional sacred prostitute? Of course I could. I even approached a western shaman, paid her her fee for a full first visit so she would hear me out, and she ran so fast behind 'professional ethics' that I hardly had time to say I understood.

I would rather not pay. Not sure why, but when I check in, that's my deepest answer I get.

There is an online porn category called CFNM=clothed female, naked male. But it's all focused on titillation and role play.

I'll stop here and provide more if anyone responds.

Feng

Question

As I'm not personally familiar with Reiki, I have to ask for some clarification:

Are you looking for someone to participate with you in exploring this form of therapy/experience - in that you give as well as getting, a partner of sorts for this specific purpose, to either further knowledge of what's happening, or to share it with another person on some level other than a sexual relationship?

Quizure

Karezza

is about sharing affection, which leads to a subtle exchange of energy that is very nourishing, but not well understood in today's scientific terms. I don't really know about what you're describing. Maybe it was a taste of what you might look for with a sweetheart. Smile

Someone here mentioned a site called "Celibate Passions." You might sniff around there. I think it's this one: http://www.celibatepassions.com/

ISO

Thanks Marnia and Quizure.

Q, you write: Are you looking for someone to participate with you in exploring this form of therapy/experience - in that you give as well as getting, a partner of sorts for this specific purpose, to either further knowledge of what's happening, or to share it with another person on some level other than a sexual relationship?

Yes. I suspect a trace of mutual discovery would be most interesting. And at least the option that I might trade my attention in return. From professionals, it's all one way, and they may be too sure 'handed' to slow down enough with me to let something mystically mysterious unfold.

M, I don't quite know what I'm describing either! The closest is transference/countertranference from classical psychoanalysis. John Houle tried his best to get at it. It's a thinning of the boundary between client/patient and provider/healer. It's part exhibitionism, clearly, and part freedom to let it all hang out.

Deep down, I fear that my own sexuality, which I admit this is part of, is too weird, frightening or unortodox. I'll have to keep forcing my expression into corsets and categories that don't satisfy and never advance my spiritual growth.

It's a way of arousing sexual energy and attraction for personal therapeutic growth.

Reiki is a type of available universal energy that promotes relaxation, healing and recovery from emotion, physical or spiritual suffering.

Feng

Darlene Viggiano's Review of The Love Cure

Analyst Darlene Viggiano seems especially interested in this area and has at least this review and another article I've found on the C G Jung page: http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&I...

It's about 1500 words, so I'm extracting pithy quotes. I refer you to the complete article.

The Love Cure: Therapy Erotic and Sexual
Written by Darlene Viggiano, M.A.
Thursday, 06 November 2003

Haule makes many excellent points that bear mention in a review of his work. One of his main premises is that Eros (sexual love) is essential to personal development.

Haule points out that since Eros is the "bringer of union," and the bringer of "Pan," a therapeutic pair can oscillate between the urge to unite and the "Pan"-ic to retreat before chaos ensues. Temptations to end this tension can turn lust into sex between the therapeutic pair; it can also turn rage into the flight of the patient at the expense of healing.

Yet sex in therapy is not a "boundary" issue, according to Haule, but an issue of unifying the elements of the personality. There is a delicate balance that needs to be held between being uninhibited and being uncontrollable, he notes. After all, the erotic alliance that can transcend these poles will result in a conjunctio. [defined as sacred union, Feng]

Haule understands that balance and transcendence respect the therapeutic pair and the seriousness of their endeavor. If the therapeutic pair can accept the "divine madness" of their loving and sexual feelings for each other, they can transform I and Thou into We, he says. "If we have the courage or intemperance to do so, an entire world of experience is opened up to us, a world whose realities are barely understood and mostly maligned by the public world of social consensus, but a world so compelling and transformative that those who return from it frequently find themselves alien sojourners in the persona field." This is Haule at his best.

What Haule does really well, and for the first time anywhere, is to differentiate treatment for the neurotic patient and that for the "earnest quester" — a client for whom "we" becomes "an issue that can no longer be ignored." Haule sees this client as a seeker of mysticism who must be treated differently. As a mystic, such a client knows what's happening in the "divine union" because it isn't an unconscious event but rather one that was anticipated passionately and readily, though the experience could not be bidden.

Just as the mystic seeks to live life as an "erotic partnership with God," Haule says, the seeker in therapy is healed by the erotic partnership with the therapist. Accordingly, sexual feelings in therapy are only dangerous to the extent that they make us "lose our therapeutic stance," he says. As long as the therapeutic love corresponds symbolically rather than concretely with one of the "stations along the path," as depicted in Jung's Psychology of the Transference, it holds the right meaning.

It is not the conjunction that cures, then, but what is done with it.

However, "closing off" the question of sex is a bad idea according to Haule, because this "reinforces the inequalities, reasserting the illusion of the therapist's infallible wisdom as well as the patient's putative incompetence." The patient is kept from being seen as reliable and trustworthy; mutuality is destroyed. Eros itself is destroyed, and the therapeutic pair loses its soul, Haule contends.

Feng

Thanks

Over the years I've become a bit more skeptical about curing with sexual highs. The dramatic short-term effects can mislead people about the longer-term results.

I visited ZEGG about a decade ago...a German polyamory community...which really explored that "cure." They even set up an "erotic academy," and their Summer Camp is still notorious for casual sex. When I was there they had disbanded the "erotic academy." When I asked a Community elder why, he said, "Because too many people became ill afterward." I think he was referring to mood disorders/psychological problems, but we didn't discuss it further, so I'm not positive.

Similarly, people report having spiritual experiences on ecstasy...at least before they blow out their brain's serotonin response. Smile

Being humans, we tend to judge the efficacy of things by their short-term effects, and where a longer cycle is at work, which produces effects that are not obviously connected to the way we're using our sexuality, we can become totally confused about what is helping us and what is hurting us. Mind you, I think intercourse is very healing. So is affectionate contact between partners. We're definitely pro-sex here, just not pro "pumping up erotic energy." It's just a different approach, one which we think is legitimate based on what we see in some of the brain research.

Just for the record, karezza is not about an erotic high. It's about establishing a stable flow of energy between partners, which is very healing, too. It's more subtle, less dramatic, and appears to be much more stable.

This is why I'm not sure we can help you with your quest for sexual highs.

sexual high

Marnia, I think you're overlooking my quest. My first experience with this was in 03, and the aftereffects have been very enduring.

Read the quotes from the article again carefully, please. This is not a quest for any type of high, if anything, it feels like a type of mellowing. It's an expansive feeling, one of trust, love. An settling of that persistent question of will I be acceptable with all my faults, just as I show up.

I only mentioned poly amory to say that this particular quest I posted about is *not* about poly amory. It's not about sex as much as it is a spiritual quest in unorthodox form.

As quoted before (with my emphasis): Just as the mystic seeks to live life as an "erotic partnership with God," Haule says, the seeker in therapy is healed by the erotic partnership with the therapist. Accordingly, sexual feelings in therapy are only dangerous to the extent that they make us "lose our therapeutic stance," he says. As long as the therapeutic love corresponds symbolically rather than concretely with one of the "stations along the path," as depicted in Jung's Psychology of the Transference, it holds the right meaning.

Sorry I mentioned sex and threw us off the path.

Yes, someone on this list may have some help. If you don't mind, I'll stay a bit longer. If you do, I'll go.

Feng

I wasn't

responding directly to your quotes, just sharing some random thoughts about erotic healing. Sorry.

I guess I am just a bit suspicious of healing that leaves you wanting a therapist instead of a partner. But, hey, everyone has to find his own path.

Of course you are welcome to stay!

What about training?

Since this is something you feel strongly needs exploring, why not become trained in Reiki? It would seem the best path to meeting someone who would be interested in exploring this without breaching any ethical boundaries of someone doing as a practice. There seem to be a number of places / teachers in your area that offer classes.

Quizure

Reiki

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm a Reiki master.

I'm game, I can hardly describe this need, and when I do I risk being rejected/abandoned to my fate.

Already, this has ruined one trade I had arranged.

And, Marnia, thanks for letting me stay. This is less about healing pains/wounds/hurts as its opposite: transformation, ecstasy, mystical transcendence.

Feng