♥Question about valley orgasms

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I have had two experiences that might be valley orgasms, but they did not have the bliss or fusion that is described, for example, in the article on magnetic sex. I sought neither experience and in both instances just kept relaxing during periods of fairly high sexual arousal. Waves that felt like releases came over me but did not exhaust me, sate me, or make me less interested at that moment or later in karezza.

Does this description also fit for you for some experiences? Might these be one type of valley orgasm?

Karezza with my beloved makes me very happy, but it is in moments of low arousal that I am clearer about why. When our sexual arousal is lower, I often feel the magnetic energy coming from his penis spreading bliss throughout my body. I believe that this also happens when sexual arousal is higher but the sexual feelings mask the magnetic ones. No orgasms yet to my knowledge at these times.

I look forward to your observations, too.

Comments

Awesome!

SnowyOwl, it sounds like you are really learning how to relax and be in the moment~~that is wonderful!

I have had two orgasms that came in a moment of total relaxation (I wasn't holding my breath nor even thinking about having one) and had the same feelings you describe--no satiation, no exhaustion, no feeling of wanting to end the lovemaking. However, I did have contractions as I would in a normal orgasm~

And I agree that you lose some of the subtleties that you feel in the lower arousal states when you become more highly aroused. I like to ride the waves and keep breathing and then go still and let everything settle back down. It's all so darn enjoyable!

rediscovered

Awesome Ladies

We're still adrift....tried karezza Sunday and had this kind of "ah duh, wadda we do now?" feeling. I did real good at not heating up myself or my Izzy. She initiated the encounter "You're horny. We should have sex". Never one to turn down such an offer, I welcomed her to my bed. I think she masturbated after she left me. I'm gonna keep trying. There was a disconnect in that I was all about karezza and she was thinking she's gonna cum.
I got a lot out of the other two PIV lovings this month. I did the kool karezza thing for as long as she could stand it and then ended in orgasm. Really not much of a hangover from those encounters, so I'm thinking that's the way to go when she comes to me for sex.....until she reads CPA, any Tantric sex book, starts joining me in meditation, comes to this site......
I was thinking I was going to educate her about Tantra, ha! I've got to keep working on my education. The ignorant are not good pilots.
It's been a great month. I've held my loving serenity, and for her part, she hasn't challanged it. Of course, the biggest challange to my serenity is my own mind.
Much Love

Any chance

she would go for the "if it happens, it happens" scenario instead? It seems to be having the goal that causes subsequent fallout on some level or other.

Is your lady willing to let

Is your lady willing to let you practice non-orgasmic love making while she has all the orgasm she wants? Sometimes a partner, especially a woman, can feel like karezza is a kind of control trip rather than a more fluid intimacy. When I first started being non-orgasmic my partner kept right on orgasming, in fact because I could go on for as long as she wanted she would have a lot more of them. Eventually she decided to bow out of orgasming herself, and our lovemaking truly became karezza.

I think she felt like I was really supporting and holding space for her sexual wishes and desires which left her with very positive feeling about me being non-orgasmic. Maybe for the first few time she was dubious about it but once she saw that what I was doing was not inhibiting her experienc, in fact enhancing it, she became pretty happy about me becoming non-orgasmic.

Is it possible that your lady could see it this way rather than some kind of trip your on?

Some Kind of Trip

No shit

Not a bad idea. I'll have to read up on Chia 'cause she does bring me along.
She wants my heat to bring her up. As I stay cool, she drifts off. Then when she leaves and is alone, her wetness and memory kick in to lead to masturbation.

Thanks Darryl, you are a master

My plan is to:
bring sex into my meditation
bring meditation into our life as a way to be together (ya wanna play cards? or hold hands and meditate for 20 minutes?)
continue to be a loving man, clear of self defeating mind trips

if it happens, it happens

ya know, she acts all casual, but I think when she initiates sex it's the O that she wants. "If it happens, it happens" mode is fine for cuddling. I'm watching for her hangover from Sunday (thinking she masturbated - "It's none of your business" - we smiled) and not seeing it. I am sooooo cool these days.....loving her, not expecting anything back, loving me....it's awesome. I wonder how long it will stick (I can make it stick).
Luv ya
Thanks for caring

Its been so long engaging

Its been so long engaging without orgasm that I don't even consider orgasming has anything to do with sex. Whether it be a valley orgasm, peak orgasm, or an olympic double twlst with a back flip orgasm they are just not a part of our sexual experience. Orgasm, whats that. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating just a tad.

I like your sentence, "When our sexual arousal is lower, I often feel the magnetic energy coming from his penis spreading bliss throughout my body" So true, so true, and so much sweeter than an orgasm of any kind. Just riding the waves.

Let me give you a bit of the taoist perspective.

[quote=SnowyOwl]Might these be one type of valley orgasm?[/quote]
Indeed.

Let me give you a bit of the taoist perspective. In taoism they speak about the 36 orgasms.
And the way taoism intends orgasm is a full body experience. It is not necessarily linked with ejaculation, and it is also not always linked with tension.
It is said that unless you did not experience orgasm in your right big toe, you have not experienced a real orgasm.

Try to use those waves that go through your body to open up your body. You can follow them. If you feel blockages anywhere, you can open up the blockage, so the wave continues. You want those waves to go all the way through your body till your fingertips, till the tip of your toes.

That's just one of the ways in which in Taoism people use sex for spiritual reasons.

Good Questions

[quote]Try to use those waves that go through your body to open up your body. You can follow them. If you feel blockages anywhere, you can open up the blockage, so the wave continues.[/quote] Thanks for your direction. It hadn't occurred to me to be less global and more particular and specific in my observations.

The first question that occurred to me after your post was what happens in areas where energy doesn't keep expanding? I am grateful to Diana Richardson for pointing me in the direction of asking the question this way. She (or her husband) have written that it is important that bodies contact each other porously and that the role of the Man is to help a Woman expand her energy. I think I have that right.

Today in scissors I had the opportunity to begin to answer my question. I expected blocked energy to crash like ocean waves against rocks. I noticed waves throughout my body, including some toes, but I did not find any crashing. In an area where there might be blocks what I found was that the waves quieted like ripples at the edge of a lake. It was as if that area did not resonate, like the effect of touching a ringing bell.

Now I have many more questions to ask about my experience: Where else do the waves quiet in this way? Do they still quiet where I first noticed this phenomenon? Where do the waves expand? Do they expand beyond the body?

I'm curious if you or others can recommend good Taoist texts that might help me continue to ask good questions. I've now read the Hua Hu Ching, a book that beautifully addresses dualism.

"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

More Questions

So it occurred to me that the place where the waves didn't resonate was bone. More questions: Do they go through bone anywhere in the body? Do they take a different, perhaps more subtle form, in bone? What exactly are they going through? How exactly do we feel them?

I am not sure how interested I am in answering all of these questions. This is akin to coming up with a typology of 36 orgasms (lol) !! I might prefer to "relax and enjoy." Let me know, though, if you happen upon any of the answers to these questions as you relax into pleasure!

"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Why would it not go through

Why would it not go through bone? Bones are just as alive as anything else. One of the strangest things I first noticed when I began water fasting is that after a couple of days my touch feels like it can nearly penetrate my bones. I'm not quite able to feel right through, but it is very close. I now feel my skeleton differently even when not fasting. I can modulate my touch to be more or less penetrative.

Bone

[quote]my touch feels like it can nearly penetrate my bones. I'm not quite able to feel right through, but it is very close.[/quote] Thank you for challenging my thoughts about bone, based upon your experience. It is very helpful to know that it is probably not the bone itself but either a block or my sensitivity to feeling the energy in a denser substance. I will keep looking.

"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

It is perhaps a combination

It is perhaps a combination of the sensitivity setting and the energy level. Don't rush bone penetration. Energy needs to build and then pulse through. It doesn't seem to work well if I try to be quick. I have to let my intentions gather energy and then when there is enough, send it along. It can also hlp to allow a larger wave packet. I can penetrate more with a palm than a fingertip. Can you find someway to enlarge the size of your waves so they don't need to be as intense. You might also try letting energy flow out or in reverse as that seems to help me feel for how much energy is needed to penetrate. I'm guessing that most peoples nerves have much more practice feeling energy than delivering energy. Once the nerves feel what is needed it is easier to reverse the process. You can experiment with smaller bones in hands, neck, and so on. It seems really tough to penetrate the larger bones. One has to wonder if putting pressure on a wound is only biological. Let us know how it goes.

What a fascinating reply and

What a fascinating reply and far beyond anything I have considered or experienced. [quote] larger wave packet. I can penetrate more with a palm than a fingertip...enlarge the size of your waves...letting energy flow out or in reverse[/quote] I think you're right about me when you say "that most people's nerves have much more practice feeling energy than delivering energy."

This will take some practice with intention, I think. I am reminded of the Richardson's books where they suggest sending energy to any parts of your lover that hurt. It is also helping me to think about and integrate karezza and my spiritual practice more deeply. More thoughts on that later. Thank you for these rich connections that you are helping me to make.

"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Have you tried this without

Have you tried this without any touch? I'm wondering to what extent our instantaneous reaction to another's vulnerabilities can be impactful. Say you have a conversation with a partner or anyone. He reveals, often tangentially, something that makes him vulnerable. In many instances, we don't pry and accept the person by allowing it to be aired without judgment. Say we say the exact same follow-up words, but alter our inner intention so as to send a healing energy with our voice. Might that be impactful? I suspect voice tone would change slightly and the other person could detect that. I'll have to play around with this. I suspect I would have to initially slow down my speaking to allow time to create the energy packet. Perhaps I could try this by watching a movie and talking to the screen.

Thanks

Thank you for your personal comments about your experience. I take so much from each one of you.[quote]I like to ride the waves and keep breathing and then go still and let everything settle back down.[/quote] My take home: Remember to breathe when highly aroused! (lol) Relax.[quote]I am sooooo cool these days.....loving her, not expecting anything back, loving me....it's awesome.[/quote] My take home: Just give. [quote]...spreading bliss throughout my body. So true, so true, and so much sweeter than an orgasm of any kind. Just riding the waves.[/quote] My take home: Relax and enjoy.

Thanks again for just responding and for trusting enough to reveal intimate details that we can't talk about in many other places.

"Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Holy O Smokes!

WTF!
I'm meditating. I've found it easier to run small energy circles through the chakras. In through the second (below the navel) and successfully out through my penis. As that settles in, I add the third chakra (solar plexus) and make a figure 8. In through the second, run the energy down along my spine, out the first, up along my belly, into the second, up along my spine, out through the third, down along my belly and back into the second. Pretty cool. I've had to disconnect the breath and use it like you might stroke a wheel with your hand, to keep it going. I kept relaxing in different parts of my body (thighs and shoulders) and started to feel kind of drifty, like my body was floating (levitation here I come!). On my exhale through my penis, those base muscles give a jump. I focused more on that and without fantasy or touching my penis, it got hard. The energy was flowing well I skipped into the Richardson's heart/sex cycle....floating.....relaxing....and OMG I came! Full abdominal clenches, neck snapping, gasping, waves of cum....I couldn't fucking believe it. No ejaculation, no pressure in my urethra, no lock to stop the spermies from escaping....just orgasm. It was intense and lasted just a bit longer than a good one with Izzy. I stopped because my neck hurt. I was flushed and tired but not knocked out as I usually am. What a fun trip this is.

Naw

didn't look nothin' like that
no muss, no fuss....not even pre-cum....that whole pressure build up was completely absent
I'm a lttle concerned about what this may lead to in my meditation practice
Much love

Yeah,

if you rechannel it, kundalini could be flying out your ears in no time. Maybe only try it with the balancing energy of your beloved in the picture.

Oh Lawdy

the Devil is loose
Ya gotta try it again
How do you know you can really do it?
What if you come to Izzy with this idea, and you can't do it?
Better practice
Look for the waves those girls are talking about.
See if you can take that fish-out-of-water flopping and turn it into something mellower.
Gain some experience so you can speak with authority to SnowyOwl about moving waves through bone.
You're good with the relaxation, going with the natural flow. You've got to work on that orgasm part.

And winning. I put it off for a while but about an hour into my meditation/contemplation I let him have his way with me. Pretty easily from that floaty place I just let it happen. It really felt like that, an allowing. I couldn't keep the orgasm going for much longer than normal but I did have a better sense of the waves moving through my whole body ("you haven't had a real orgasm until you feel it in your toes"). The strong contractions of my stomach are very distracting. Not only couldn't I keep it going but I felt to be in refactory as well; that I couldn't do it again for a while. Now I feel masturbation satisfied, not post O with Izzy stoned.
Next time, start your meditation with the orgasm so you'll have enough time to see if there is a refactory period
or how long it is
Can you do this non-ejaculation orgasm with Izzy and stay hard for her to cum too?

Heaven help me
or Gary....

Nap Time

I'm home with a cold and had the luxury of a nap.
Waking, I easily went to the floating place, running the figure eight energy around the first three chakras. As I tried to pass energy out my penis my exhale contained a small burst, a pulse of my lower abdominal muscles. I focused on that breath pattern, forgetting the energy and float. Pretty soon shock waves of orgasm were coming quickly and convulsing all of my abdominal muscles. I was able to keep it going longer than before and maybe a little longer than I've ever experienced an orgasm.
Time is weird at this point.
My dick was not involved. The first two times (yesterday and today AM) I checked with my hand to see if I was even hard (I was). This afternoon I was only semi hard (3/4?). I tried to smooth the convulsions out into waves (not) and to feel the energy of my penis (not). I focused on relaxing as much as possible but couldn't/didn't want to stop the orgasm spasm. I believe I could. I was knocked out and drifted in bliss for maybe 10-20 minutes.
I tried again just by repeating the breathing pattern and was able to orgasm again but lost interest in trying to keep it going or play with it.
Izzy says she seen me cum and isn't particularly interested in this experiment. She's at work now. Yesterday and today I was very interested in connecting with her. We'll see what fall-out there might be from this cumming 4 times in 32 hours.
I think what I've done, is taught myself to cum without touching myself, without pre-cum, without ejaculation, without dick pumping dry ejaculation; just by mimicking the breath pattern of an orgasm. I don't think energy kundalani has much to do with it at this point. Right now I feel like I had a regular orgasm and suspect neurochemically it's no different. Dopamine?
As I lay down in Anat Baniel Method class today and dropped into that meditative state I was briefly nervous....but no worries, no public orgasms.
Is meditation going to become my trigger instead of porn?
What happened to that guy who doesn't seek orgasm?
What I would like, is the healing, loving energy of my penis inside My Love. I don't think this breathing practice is going to get me there.

valley orgasm?

Searched and found this older thread.

I experienced this today and it lasted for several minutes. I wasn't erect at the time, just kind of inside her hanging out. And it wasn't something I felt in my genitals at all. Just all over. It wasn't waves really. Just a steady state of incredible whole body pleasure. I had been focusing on relaxing and we had been having intercourse for about 30 or 40 minutes when it happened, in scissors position. 

Valley orgasm? Is that what this is? Felt like the same pleasure as an orgasm, but not as much, but it went on and on, and there was a disembodied feeling, nothing to do, no body to do it with, I could communicate with my lover but didn't really want to, didn't want to do anything but that. 

Don't know what that's all about but it was sure cool.

valley orgasm?

Searched and found this older thread.

I experienced this today and it lasted for several minutes. I wasn't erect at the time, just kind of inside her hanging out. And it wasn't something I felt in my genitals at all. Just all over. It wasn't waves really. Just a steady state of incredible whole body pleasure. I had been focusing on relaxing and we had been having intercourse for about 30 or 40 minutes when it happened, in scissors position. 

Valley orgasm? Is that what this is? Felt like the same pleasure as an orgasm, but not as much, but it went on and on, and there was a disembodied feeling, nothing to do, no body to do it with, I could communicate with my lover but didn't really want to, didn't want to do anything but that. 

Don't know what that's all about but it was sure cool.