Female Ejaculation

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Greetings!

I am a woman who recently discovered ejaculation, and after mentioning it in other forums, it has elicited the following questions from other readers:

1) Does female ejaculation coincide with orgasm?
My experience is that it does not, but preceeds it. Any input from other ladies experiencing ejaculation, or from men with women who ejaculate?

2) Is there a hangover from female ejaculation as there is from male? I'm undecided yet, being new to this and never having thought of orgasms as giving me a hangover.

3) Does ejaculating affect your intimacy with your partner? (this is sortov the same question as 2)

4) Are there any specific spots that stimulate you to ejaculation more than others, and/or any positions or muscular movements that you find are conducive to it? For me, its a muscular pushing downwards that does it, rather than pulling up, though I alternate between these two and it is when I push the uterus down that this happens.

5) What does it smell like, taste like, look like, and how much? How many times? I've read that chemically female ejaculate is similar to men's ejaculate minus the sperm, also that it can be very sweet. I'd imagine this varies quite a bit from individual to individual, dependent on diet, health, etc. Mine is slightly yellow, has no smell, and tastes mildly bitter/sour. It is not urine, though it could be mixed with it.

Input from men and women welcome!

G spot and female ejaculation

I find that using strong g spot stimulation is the key to quiding a women to having g spot orgasms.

Also you can go the the toilet with her and say good girl and press her hand everytime she wees. Do this 5 to 10 times over 2 days.
Then during the g spot stimulation when the spot swells from the stimulation say good girl and press her hand and this will enable her to let go and ejaculate.

good girl?

good girl? what are you trying to do? make your partner feel like a house pet?

she just ejaculated. she knows shes a good girl. i dont think she needs to be told.

I think the muscles used for

I think the muscles used for the pushing out and pulling up are different, but include, those muscles used to go pee and stop peeing. When I pull up, I'm using the large hammock-like muscle on the backside of the vagina, which I don't use to stop peeing, but which also sortov contracts those muscles near the urethra too. Likewise when I say pushing out, I mean the whole muscle of the uterus - more the lower stomach muscles, but the muscles around the urethra relax and open also with this pushing down. In other words when I pee or try not to pee it doesn't require such a concerted use of these larger muscles, but when I do use the muscles I am also involuntarily using the smaller muscles normally activated in starting or stopping urination. Hope that answers the question, Ragnar.

And Tantrabliss, it makes sense that having the woman associate peeing and ejaculating with the same hand pressure and verbal confirmation could work to help her let go, tho I personally would be a little annoyed at having a guy call me a "good girl" for doing this. Seems a little condescending but hey whatever works for you. I'm wondering if you could describe how similar/dissimilar the ejaculate is to urine and what it smells/tastes like. Thanks.

Hello Tantrabliss

I can imagine that you, like me, wasn't born into the english language so some words or phrases may not strike you as having the double meaning that they may have for our english native friends. The method, I think, you are referring to when you trigger something by association to a physical manifestation, is known as Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming and has proven to be very effective

The choice of trigger word is what may seem a bit tricky ... if you squeezed my hand and said good boy, I would expect to get a dog-biscuit or be taken for a walk around the block ...

Hypnosis and orgasms

Hotspring, Ejaculation fluid does not smell like urine and it is clear in my experince.

There is another ejaculaton fluid that Nityama talks about called nectar. Nityama is a tantra energy healer that can give woman orgasms from hugs etc. Unfortunately I have not experinced a women having this experince. The fluid I have been told is like honey and sweet. A few women I have talked to about this experince have only had this with Nityama and not any other man. Nityama states that not releasing this fluid leads to health issues later in life.

On another note, it is interesting to see how a woman in a trance state can have multiple orgasms in stage shows.

The question is does having this experince under hynosis enable a man or women to have deeper orgasmic experinces with her partner.

Is the use of trigger words a valid approach to enable a man or a women to do deeper?

Interesting, Tantrabliss . .

Interesting, Tantrabliss . . . could you elaborate? Please let me know what you mean by "deeper" orgasmic experiences. I'm not very farmiliar with hypnotherapy or its purposes, especially relating to sexual release and the purpose or funtcion of having someone experience orgasms during hypnosis.

I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that these states are explored to see whether a woman has more ready access to her ecstatic self (gauged by orgasm) in hypnosis than not, and whether these trance experiences have "crossover" (ie, applicability to how they experience their sexuality in their everyday lives/partnerships). In other words, is there therapeutic potential in this method or is it just a trippy thing people can do to themselves? You leave the question open; what have you yourself observed?

There seems to be some sort of ethical dilemma almost, because you ask if using trigger words is valid to help someone go deeper. Why would you think it might not be valid? It seems to me like validity comes down to intention. What is the intention of the hypnotist, the intention of the person being hypnotized, and the intention of the session as a whole?

Thanks for that research,

Thanks for that research, Marnia. I personally feel MANY different "pleasure zones" in my vagina (at least three that stand out), certainly not only where the G-spot is mentioned, and ejaculation for me has not corresponded necessarily to that spot.

Anyway, the information about the ejaculating Rwandan women was interesting to me - tho I don't think I'd want to go to the trouble to stretch out my inner labia for it!

Anyway, my hangover persists. I seem very intent this week on making a clear boundary and space between myself and the men in my life. Going inwards . . . recentering. Lots of saying "No", which can get exhausting too. I'm marking my calendar again . . . starting over . . .

multiple vaginal "pleasure zones"

rboothe: Hotspring, you've noted multiple pleasure zones in your vagina; have you ever experienced one, rather deep, which when contacted by a penis, causes an immediate, overwhelming orgasm in both you and your partner? I've experienced it only twice, as a male. Both times I instinctively thrust very deep and it was like hitting an electric contact.

Each time was with a different woman, and since, in both cases, we had made love shortly beforehand, I began to wonder if perhaps the earlier orgasm had somehow charged-up the second chakra - which is said to be associated with sexual energy - and that thrusting deeply resulted in contact with the chakra itself, triggering instant orgasm... .

The major points for me are

The major points for me are the opening, the g-spot, another spot on the posterior wall of the vagina (the "hammock-like" pelvic muscles), and the cervix itself. I have experienced the cervix to be a very charged spot. If I am emotionally open to the man, there is an inwards and upwards pulling electrical charge there. How sensitive it is depends on how "in tune" I am with my partner, and how in tune he is with me. I think it has something to do with resonance, harmonics, or coherent, entrained auras/chackras (I believe that the aura is the larger energetic emmanation of the combined chackras). It also has to do with the man's confidence in his giving and my confidence in receiving. I have not experienced an immediate orgasm there (if by immediate you mean by one single thrust). Then again, not many men have been able to directly reach my cervix. Turns out I'm a pretty long and thin lady inside as well as out. So . . . ahem . . . only a few reach that special spot . . . luckily there are other very delicius ones not so far afield [smile].

Also I've discovered that in addition to this pulling up energy of the cervix, the uterus is a very strong muscle and the cervix can actually decend or come down, and it is when using these pushing down muscles that I have experienced ejaculation, which - by the way - does not necessarily correspond with orgasm.

Anyway, to bring these somewhat taboo topics (ejaculation, immediate orgasm) into the context of this site, I would say that in general the capacity for ecstacy is dependent on how coherent the energy fields of me and my partner are, whereas my capacity for mere mechanical orgasm is not dependent on this. I differentiate ecstatic capacity from orgasmic capacity in that it involves the emotions, tenderness, and a wider range of connection, sensation, play, and delight. To be ecstatic means to fully enjoy the connection itself and fully open to it, which has so many pleasures - many of which do not necessarily have to do with orgasmic sensation, unless we start to redefine orgasmic sensation entirely to include all pleasure, and not merely the involuntary muscular release. There has been mention made of "heart orgasms" and I think that really, an orgasm is any kind of pleasurable peak.

My experiences with nonorgasmic sex have involved many peaks without the involuntary muscle spasm. I'm aware Marnia warns against going into the "red zone." Maybe here would be a time to try to define that more? Of course riding on the edge of orgasm would be the red zone, but I have experienced extremely pleasurable peaks of sensation, joy, or connection within a lovemaking session that were not on the edge of orgasm and so really if we think of an orgasm as any pleasurable peak then one session of so-called "nonorgasmic" sex can be filled with them.

I guess my point is that even while avoiding orgasm or that edge, sex when practiced in this manner still involves pleasure and peaks of some kind. I'd love it if Marnia could describe her experience in a more detailed way. I can see an emphasis on stillness, or a combination of slow movement mixed with periods of stillness, though this would not do away with peaks, because a peak is really just a variation. I'm assuming there is some variation in this form of lovemaking as Marnia describes it. And - in my experience - stillness can sometimes be even more pleasurable than movement, depending on the nature of the dynamic and connection.

But it is a DYNAMIC between two states, otherwise how could it be an exchange or an expression or sharing?

Hmmm...

I have felt all the sensations you describe...during conventional sex. I would describe my experience with this type of lovemaking in very different terms.

It's a wholesome feeling of joy...more like the feelings when hugging one's first puppy ;-), standing under a waterfall, or the feelings a green plant probably has when it's opening its leaves toward the life-giving sun.

There's a tingling from head to toe, a feeling of wellbeing, and a sense of satisfaction without ever feeling "done." It's thrilling and heart-opening, but not firework-y. And of course, there's a welcome decrease in drama outside the bedroom - which allows me to get on with important things...like writing to all of you. Smile My husband mysteriously retains his adorableness, too, even though he only rarely closes a cupboard door.

It's kind of like hanging out in some "Garden of Eden": playful, yet satisfying...and very different than goal-driven sex.

There are more overwhelming feelings near orgasm, which my passionate side finds delicious, but I've never had much luck in stopping the flow of the action when I venture into that zone. Even if I manage on one occasion, I get caught off guard the next time I make love. Biology always seems to win. I know the tantra tradition insists the treasure is buried there. I just don't know. That's why I say I'm "still in the laboratory" even though we currently focus most of our attention on "being" instead of "doing." I definitely feel like there's more to learn...and like I may have to let the next insights find me. That's why I'm glad you're doing your detective work, Hotspring!

Marina wrote: "There are

Marina wrote: "There are more overwhelming feelings near orgasm, which my passionate side finds delicious, but I've never had much luck in stopping the flow of the action when I venture into that zone. Even if I manage on one occasion, I get caught off guard the next time I make love. Biology always seems to win. I know the tantra tradition insists the treasure is buried there. I just don't know"

From what I've read, the original Tantric tradition was for only the male to abstain. The woman could orgasm endlessly. The Karezza method was the modern sequel. As I haven't been in a realtionship with a woman willing to try it, I can't speak from experience; but I Was in a relationship where we would surf the pre-orgasmic wave for 4-5 hours, during which neither of us climaxed. However, she always insisted that we end it with orgasm. After making love, rather intensely, for that long, the forthcoming orgasm was powerful and immense. We would let go of all restraint, and just go for it. The intensity would build up with both of us perfectly in-sync. to an all-out, cosmic orgasm. Interestingly, one of the original translations of the word tantra is 'gradual acceleration' - which perfectly describes the build up to those orgasms.

Actually,

Karezza also advises that the woman avoid orgasm, Rboothe. And I could show you tantric texts that also recommend this - just not in the West, where this message just doesn't sell very well. Wink The real question for me is not "how great can the gradually-accelerated orgasm be?" It's "what happens over the following two weeks?" In my experience, that's when the separating behaviors show up.

Here expert Georg Feurerstein's (founder of the Yoga Research and Education Center) explains how the West's "neo-tantra" contrasts with traditional tantra with its "belief that sexual energy is an important reservoir of energy that should be used wisely to boost the spiritual process rather than block it through orgasmic release." Neo-tantrism runs the risk of bringing harm to its practitioners because it focuses on gratification of the ego's desires, distracting lovers from the spiritual goal of transcending illusion.

According to Feuerstein, this risk is nowhere more apparent than in neo-tantrism's pro-orgasm stance. At orgasm, "the creative tension that could serve as a bridge to ecstasy is lost. The whole point of avoiding orgasm is to accumulate the subtle force or nervous energy called ojas, which is wasted the moment the nerves fire during ejaculation." And it's not semen loss that's the problem. "It's actually the firing of the nervous system during sexual stimulation. That applies to both men and women," as Feuerstein explained in "Yoga Journal" in November, 2002.

Feuerstein differentiates the goal of traditional tantra, "bliss," in which the ego is transcended, with neo-tantrism's search for heightened, pleasurable sensations, which cannot lead to spiritual fulfillment. "Genital orgasms or whole-body orgasms are psychosomatic phenomena, not spiritual manifestations. Bliss is the everlasting "orgasm" of God and Goddess in divine embrace, beyond all concepts."

Marina: "Karezza also

Marina: "Karezza also advises that the woman avoid orgasm, Rboothe."

rboothe: I assumed that everyone here already knew that, which is why I mentioned Karezza.

Marina: "And I could show you tantric texts that also recommend this - just not in the West, where this message just doesn't sell very well."

rboothe: I was referring to ancient teachings; if you're speaking of those, I'd like to know more about them. I know that in the Chinese tradition women are encouraged to orgasm, as that is supposed to charge up the male - who is encouraged to have as many female consorts as possible, to maximize the female energy absorbed. Nowadays, Montak Chia (if that's the right spelling) teaches how both male and female can circulate pre-orgasmic energy and use it for healing, amonst other things; but I haven't had a chance to try his methods.

Marina: "The real question for me is not "how great can the gradually-accelerated orgasm be?" It's "what happens over the following two weeks?" In my experience, that's when the separating behaviors show up."

rboothe: I certainly wasn't recommending orgasm; sorry if you got that impression. I was addressing your issue about not being able to keep from going over the edge when you got close to orgasm, and relating my experience that one can linger on the pre-orgasmic wave for as long as they wish, if both partners have that goal, chemistry and ability. It's a dance, and like all dances, can be fast or slow, hot or cool, depanding on the mood of the dancers. When a couple does that for several hours, it takes a real effort to orgasm, so the 'danger zone' I understood you to be speaking of appears not to be an issue under such circumstances.

As I said, orgasm was my partner's choice, not mine. I did note separating behavior for about a week afterward, which might possibly not have happened if we'd avoided orgasm. I do know that when I first got into Tantra, I didn't orgasm or ejaculate for about 6 months - but my partner did - and I felt great. We didn't know much about the spiritual side of it at the time, and were using Tantra primarily as a means of birth control (coupled with daily cervical mucous testing and abstinence during ovulation) - which worked perfectly. It was only later that I found out the woman wasn't supposed to orgasm either, and began to see the parallel between being focused in the present moment during sex, with the same focus during enlightenment, and grasped how the Tantric path actually worked. It's a way to use sexual energy as a catalyst to force one to focus completely on the present moment and abandon all goal-oriented activity - which leads to enlightenment.

Tantra also goes beyond simply attaining enlightenment: it's a way for those who have already done so to enjoy each other without losing the state, or creating children. (If one is in the immortal realm, children aren't necessary unless someone either leaves that dimension, or has an accident.) This may not have much application at present, but could in the future, if lots of us enter that realm, otherwise known as Paradise or Eden.

Thanks for your insightful post

I'm glad you explained further, and sorted out my incorrect assumptions. Your comments about how the practice keeps one in the present moment and therefore enhances spiritual perception are very valuable, too. I would add that I think avoiding the post-orgasmic letdown also has spiritual implications. When we are feeling a subconscious sense of lack/neediness/uneasiness, we are more likely to fall into dualistic feeling/thinking - such as, "me against the world" or "that political party is bad" etc. When we feel whole and open-hearted, we more easily see our connections with others, and our common goals.

I think your experience and remarks also make clear that this practice doesn't call for "suppression of orgasm." Rather, one discovers that orgasm isn't necessary to achieve full satisfaction - via a deep heart connection with another. But "just going for orgasm" keeps this option hidden, and also tends to promote separating behaviors.

You're right that there are Taoist texts in which men were advised to "suck" the life force out of women (and, ultimately, "ideally" pre-pubescent girls). I'm looking now at a modern version of the female counterpart...where women are advised to remain youthful by "sucking" the semen out of men (orally) while avoiding intercourse with them! "The Sexual Teachings of the White Tigress" by Hsi Lai. To me both approaches are evidence of how a subconscious sense of lack plays out between man and woman, over and over - making each distrustful of the other, and preventing true nourishment of the type you discovered. Very sad.

Obviously, no one with even a faint grasp of karma or the Golden Rule would ever think they would get ahead for long by using/weakening another person for their own benefit. But back to the point. The ancient Taoist texts by no means consistently recommend vampire-ish practices. In fact, some of the oldest texts recommend a mutually-beneficial practice - based on *both* sexes avoiding orgasm. Have a look at Douglas Wile's book for a fuller picture. Here's an article about it with some quotations: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/taoism_chinese_sexology_wile

Also, the "Hua Hu Ching" (the supposed oral teachings of Taoist master Lao Tzu), believed to be about 2300 years old, speaks in terms of mutual transformation of male and female. It doesn't seem to exclude women from the benefits of avoiding "ordinary" sexuality. http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/lao_tzu_tai_chi_of_sexual_transcendance

Thanks for your inspiring words about transcending the birth/death cycle, too.

Finally, I'm a bit dislexic myself, so I'll just point out that my name is not, actually, "marina," but "marnia." Smile My mother is quite proud of her creativity in naming me.

Tantra

rboothe

Thanks for your kind words and links, which I read, and then some. One of your quotes of Lao Tsu caught my eye:

As "higher and higher unions of yin and yang are necessary for the conception of higher life, some students may be instructed in the art of dual cultivation, in which yin and yang are directly integrated in the tai chi of sexual intercourse....If genuine virtue and true mastery come together…the practice can bring about a profound balancing of the student's gross and subtle energies [otherwise it can have a destructive effect] . . . The result of this is improved health, harmonized emotions, the cessation of cravings and impulses, and, at the highest level, the transcendent integration of the entire energy body."

I first read about Tantra in an interview with Yogi Bajan, where he told readers "if you must have intercourse [he preferred 'white Tantra' which doesn't involve intercourse], you must proceed in this order: First stimulate the breasts and nipples, then the neck, followed by the ears, lips & mouth, then the spine, thighs, calves, and finally the vulva." This sequence struck me as strange, but after I tried it, I discovered that it fully arouses both partners simultaniously.

Further, the above sequence stimulates the chakras and begins moving sexual energy in such a way that, when intercourse begins, the kundalini energy flows from one partner's chakras into the other's, intertwining up through all of them. This can be quite powerful and moving, depending on the partners involved, and passionate.

I suggest, here, that passionate sex, without ejaculation, can be an excellent form of exercise, as well as self-discovery. The reason for this is that it circulates both partner's chi - twice as much as each has individually - throughout both of their bodies simultaniously, strengthening them and cleaning out debris.

When, for example, the heart chakras open and all this energy begins flowing between partners, it really unites them, and it is this cosmic union of male and female that provides the harmony called oneness. When both partners realize that they represent the male and female halves of the Universe, such unity becomes powerful indeed.

Marnia

rboothe:

I forgot to mention that I'm sorry I misread and misspelled your name. English is not my first language, and my eyesight is also not as good as it once was - especially when reading computer screens.

After 3 and one half months

You have spelled out one result. I used to have a very high libido and the Peace method has caused a relaxing shift in our relationship. We no longer miss hot peak orgasm. Settling into a steady glow, it still has some of the usual bumps of long term marriage, but the new Peace shock absorbers really smooth them out.
Luke

>I think your experience and remarks also make clear that this practice doesn't call for "suppression of orgasm." Rather, one discovers that orgasm isn't necessary to achieve full satisfaction - via a deep heart connection with another. But "just going for orgasm" keeps this option hidden, and also tends to promote separating behaviors.<