Mixing karezza and conventional sex

Submitted by Karezza Korner on
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(emerson) [Interesting discussion] Coming once in awhile and other reflections on Karezza

(pianoluvr) My wife of 24 years and I have been experimenting with sex without orgasm for about 9 months now. It has really been a miracle for us. Really. My cravings for porn just evaporated almost overnight since we started. Before I found this site, we would often go weeks without sex, and sometimes the sex seemed more like glorified masturbation.

9 months later, it just seems to get better and better! We never considered ourselves high libido types, but we often have sex in the morning and at night, sometimes for days in a row. But its not just the frequency that is amazing - it is the level of pleasure and contentedness. There are all these levels that we never even fathomed before. It takes time to find them - after an hour of lovemaking we seem to find ourselves in another dimension.

We keep asking ourselves "how did we not know about this before??" "how come everyone is not doing this??"

I continue having orgasms occasionally, sometimes by accident but on two occasions they were purposeful after a month of regular sex without coming. I'm telling you, these were the most long lasting powerful orgasms I had ever experienced. I never thought I would be one of those multi-orgasmic guys, but I can understand it now. They were mind blowing.

All in all, my wife tends to have more orgasms than I do, but she often doesn't

Another one of the most amazing things to me is that the "blue balls" I used to experience occasionally seems to have vanished. In our old way of having sex, I could not have imaged stopping before orgasm an then going to sleep. I would have felt too pent up. I don't experience the same sense of urgency about finishing now. Its wonderful to finish a love making session knowing that it will continue so soon!

We really feel like we have rediscovered our youth, but in many ways its better now than when we were first married!

Lastly, we have had some extra stress in our lives the past few months due to some crisis in our extended family. Both my wife and I have been struggling with some new challenges. However, Karezza has helped us keep our sanity! Its nice to know we can go into our other world and not think about all the outside stress for a while. It's like a mini vacation to an exotic island somewhere! No airports necessary.

After climax, I do notice the changes: a little more distance, a little less patience with each other.

We sometimes have timed our climax to happen right before she menstruates. It seems to be a good time of the month to get a little more space.

When I have gone a full 30 days, it doesn't seem to take very long for my interest to rekindle, especially if she had not climaxed. In fact that seems to be something that has worked for us - taking turns with our orgasms. In the past we always used to want to climax together, or at least during the same session. It seems by staggering, the "non-satisfied" partner is able to rekindle the other.

So far, though, I've been happiest during the 30 days of abstaining. However, I may be ready to go longer.
(munroist) First let me give a bit of background. My wife and I have been married for nearly 40 years and so are just a few years past the 60 mark. We’ve always had a good sex life, but over the last few years I’ve begun to find it difficult to reach a climax/ ejaculate with any certainty and also had difficulty maintaining erections. The doctor prescribed various versions of the world famous blue pill didn’t really solve that problem and also made me feel lousy so I gave these up pretty quickly.

I often felt quite depressed about making love because of these problems and always felt under pressure (from myself I’d add) and then disappointed when things went wrong. In fact I’d begun to feel that I wanted to stop making love as I’d feel so frustrated in every sense of the word. My wife, thankfully, was very supportive and never said anything to upset me further.

Then I came across the Reuniting website, read everything on it, bought Marnia’s book and “discovered” that so many people seem to find sexual contentment using the Karezza method. I talked with my wife about whether we should try it. The result was about a year ago we embarked upon our Karezza style love-making journey.

We both agreed that we’d take the elements of it that we thought would work for us – lots of cuddles, kisses and frequent intercourse. From having unsatisfactory sex about twice a week we’ve moved on to having intercourse every other day. One of the most interesting things is that in this year my wife hasn’t once said she didn’t want to make love when I’ve suggested it.

We decided that we weren’t going to avoid have an orgasm (in her case) or ejaculating in my case. If either of us had one because we were particularly in the mood, or it just happened anyway, then that would be fine. We also changed the way we made love. We undress is each other slowly with lots of kisses but when we lie down we keep our pants on and touch each other’s genitals through the material – just like we did before we married!! When we’ve had enough of this my wife will ask if I want to come into her – I always do!

My wife will sometimes have an orgasm this way (probably about 1 in 3 times we make love) but what’s noticeable is how much more relaxed it feels and although they can be very strong there’s not the frantic feeling that there used to be. She tells me that they are also much more enjoyable.

What have I discovered? Firstly, my occasional erection problems (which have almost disappeared) don’t seem to matter now as I’ve discovered that I can enter her when only slightly erect and then become hard and I will always stay hard enough to carry on gentle intercourse.

Sometimes even when I move slowly I feel the “excitement” building up but it usually stays at a fairly calm level and I simply let my body move gently to the point of no return and ejaculate (this happens at about the same frequency as my wife but not necessarily on the same occasion). Again the sensations of ejaculation are much more gentle than in the past – usually just a gentle swelling feeling.

What I have noticed is that as time has gone on I often have quite intense feelings – almost like an orgasm during intercourse but without ejaculating. It builds up to a tremendous feeling of pleasure and then subsides. Presumably these are actually orgasms but without the ‘normal’ ejaculation. I also find that I stay hard and can then continue moving inside my wife.

Have others experienced this ‘orgasm’ like sensation without ejaculating.

Finally, I’m just so pleased that I came across this concept of karezza, even though we don’t follow it as strictly as some do.
More voices:

(John G) After 3 1/2 years of Karezza, my body very quickly shrugs off an isolated inadvertent ejaculation: some tiredness, but no moodiness, or discouragement, or other related symptoms that I used to feel after PMO or 'peak' orgasm from 'orthodox' intercourse.


(Virgil) Once you develop a true understanding of the benefits of karezza, a paradigm shift occurs and you never quite look at the world with the same lens again. You come to realize that following the fertilization-driven genetic programming is what drives the extreme neurochemical cycling, and the resulting perception changes in how we see our partner and the world.

Possessing this knowledge is like opening Pandora’s Box in that once you learn the cause and effect of your neurochemistry there is no going back. No putting the knowledge back in the box so to speak. So can one have a karezza/non-karezza simultaneous mindset? I think not.

But you can use this knowledge to take conscious control of your sexuality. If you choose to be orgasmic you do so with a more complete understanding of what happens when you engage with another in this way. Or you can choose to follow this path and engage on a much deeper, much more profound level. Knowledge is power, and this knowledge empowering in a way I cannot properly put into words.

My wife and I employ a combined approach where she remains orgasmic while I abstain. We got to this point through lots of exploration, introspection, and truly connecting to what is going on in our bodies during intimate activities. By paying very close attention to the details we came to understand that as a man, ejaculatory orgasm was very depleting for me and the neurochemical fallout from endorphin cycling was bad news.

My wife, on the other hand, is like the energizer bunny and even seemingly endless multiple orgasms do not appear to affect her negatively at all. So far the dynamic of this combined approach is working very well for us and we are enjoying a level of intimacy and connection far beyond even what we enjoyed during the honeymoon phase of our relationship over twenty years ago. And the sex? Absolutely mind bending and easily the most enjoyable of our lives.

To frame this properly, our relationship has always been solid. We were very content for many years with conventional male-burst pattern sexuality (until we found out just how much more was available). Our delving into the alternative was simply an enhancement that makes our good thing that much better.

Now our encounters are anything but athletic and our only "goal" is to connect on the most intimate level we can and enjoy all the pleasure we are capable of generating together. My wife claims I bring much more energy to our joining now and since there is no "rush" to finish both of us have learned to slow down and really revel in all the sensations two partners are able to create during extended play. My wife finds the relaxed state combined with all the energy going back and forth almost impossible to resist - only now unlike the past most of her orgasms are triggered by "G" spot/vaginal barrel stimulation. She says having longer sessions allowed her to relax into and fully enjoy the sensations from having me inside her and she was able to connect with nerve endings down there she never knew she had - and as a result is now more orgasmic than ever with much less deliberate stimulation.

My wife and I have had numerous conversations along the way concerning this, and both of us agree that our version of karezza is way better than the fertilization-driven sex we engaged in before. Will we ever get to full on karezza where my wife abstains as well? Who knows? But we will maintain conscious control of our sexuality, and remain on this path to see where it leads.

(Rachel) We found that in the early days (before my brain rewired and I did not know how to shut off the "go for orgasm" valve, lol), whenever my mind went to orgasm and I started letting it go off that cliff, my partner would have a really hard time not ejaculating right then and there. In fact, there was a time or two when he would only have half an erection and an ejaculation would come out of seemingly nowhere. He said that whenever my mind switched over to orgasm mode, it felt like he was being sucked into a deep, dark tunnel. It would feel like he no longer had control. And this is a man who in the early days of us having conventional sex, could delay an orgasm indefinitely.

So I think what happens in karezza is your minds begin to meld and the energies become so close that a thought in one person's mind can be felt in the other's.

And now, when I have an orgasm that is not brought on by my mind (one where it happens without me thinking ahead to it or trying for it), he can feel it when it happens, but it doesn't affect him. But there are other types of touch he can no longer do that he used to be able to do without triggering me. For example, if he touches my nipple or grabs my derriere at certain times, that is way too much, and is a huge trigger and we have to stop and slow way down. This transition is amazing. That's call I can say about it, lol.

(Quizure - female) Some folks practice a form of karezza where only the man abstains from orgasm, as in some traditions it is believed that only the man loses vitality via orgasm/ejaculation. This seems like a combined approach to me.

Obviously, there are people who might practice karezza most of the time, but at some point, decide they want children, and so at least for a period of time, must revert to a form of intentional orgasmic sex. However, it doesn't have to be the usual method, where there's a very short period of time between intromission and ejaculation, one could easily spend most of the time in karezza, and then when it feels like the right time, have a planned orgasm.

My partner has the occasional unintentional orgasm. This isn't a contest of perfection, so we don't sweat it. Experience just lets us be a little more aware of any emotion or tiredness that flares up, and laugh it off as just a bit of a hangover.

It's all a continuum. Our version of karezza may, or may not, look like anyone else's - maybe we look like two elderly turtles in comparison to some. Or maybe we look like two bunnies in heat. Either way, I'm pretty sure we *glow*.
We found that "gradual" was a bit tricky because of the hidden cycle of orgasm. Karezza didn't register as as satisfying while our brains were still under the influence of a recent orgasm. This can keep its benefits somewhat invisible if one goes back and forth. Anyone else have any thoughts on how "back and forth" works for experimenting with karezza? Have I been too pessimistic?
Yes, (she) did use this gradual method, more like an observational method. She basically started noticing the difference between orgasming and not, and concluded that "not" was better. Also, I wasnt suggesting she stop orgasming. My non-orgasmic origins came from the Taoist traditions which focuses on the man not orgasming and doesnt even suggest the woman should. It was completely her choice. It was after she stopped that I noticed the difference.
(From Marnia) I had been experimenting for years before I met Gary. I was a slow learner, but that's how I figured out that compromise didn't work well. So I was "on board" and very careful (for me) not to push him to orgasm. Although I did once give him a severe case of blue balls with some fancy foreplay action. Not wise. Fortunately, he had just been through a romance where he could watch the post-O behavior in a woman, so that helped curb some of his past habits, too. Like you, I didn't "force" him. I told him that if we could start with three weeks of the practice, I'd be delighted. And that if it wasn't working for him, we could switch to conventional sex. I don't think force works in this area. Fortunately, he saw some benefits in just that short a time. Other improvements took longer.
Becoming non-orgasmic was the best thing I ever did - the positive effects on me were profound - but I will admit to still being on the fence as far as my wife is concerned. Orgasm does not seem to affect her negatively and she enjoys them so much - so why not? I am very interested in experimenting with Karezza just to see what happens but have not and will not push her into this…
My wife has said that since I became non-orgasmic I bring more energy to our joining and our activity time now lasts as long as she wants it to. This allows her to fully relax into the experience and enjoy all the subtle interplay of the ebb and flow of all the vital energy we both bring to play. She has the same "problem" you do in that the relaxed state along with all the slow and gentle movements almost always insures a mind bending experience and lots of orgasms for her.
You two practice what my girlfriend and I do- she has orgasms I do not. What you wrote- it was impossible for you not to orgasm is exactly what my lover experiences. She finds it so exciting and relaxing to know that I will not ejaculate during our love making that she finds it SO easy to have beautiful orgasms.
We actually haven't been practicing for awhile. He doesn't feel the same strong energies I do when we practice karezza and so doesn't have the same incentive to do it. He is willing to stop making love within individual lovemaking sessions, but it is entirely driven by my request, and overall he certainly isn't driven to practice this as our primary form of loving. We get along quite well even when having orgasms. After exploring this for a few years, my conclusion is that it is not really possible to do karezza part time and conventional part time. Both people really need to want to practice karezza as the preferred choice for this to work, because it is an entirely different paradigm, and because our brains are so plastic. I don't think its possible to deepen into the true potencies available in Karezza if your brain is also being trained through conventional sex to go for orgasm most of the time. This is an ENTIRELY different way of making love, and it takes some time to establish those brain pathways of safety in being yourself, rather than a performer.

I know that I do prefer karezza. Since I like conventional sex as well, going along with that is easier than trying to change my mate. But I'm glad i know about karezza. My husband is familiar with the concepts and thinks its valid in its own way, but maybe not a superior way to make love as far as harmony is concerned. Now that I'm pregnant, I think it might be worthwhile to start to try again, mostly because I'm often very tired from the pregnancy and because of all the hormonal changes, less horny than usual. Orgasm does wipe me out easier and makes me less interested in sex for awhile. When I don't orgasm, I want to make love much more often, and when sex is not goal-oriented, it is so much more open and present and loving and ecstatic.

In order for this to work with my husband, I think I would have to make a very firm decision in myself that I wasn't interested in orgasm or conventional sex and let him know that I'm giving them up completely, not just abstaining within individual lovemaking sessions (this rarely works anyway - if I am trying not to come and he is choosing to come, it always pushes me over). I will need his cooperation in not pushing me over and can state the preference we practice karezza as a way of life, at least for a few months. We'll see.

(lovers13) My wife and I have been doing something like karezza for around three years without knowing about it. After learning about karezza from here I think I should share some of our experience.

In our thirteen years of marriage we have two kids together. But we are never in so much love like now. We make love 2-3 times everyday except her menstrual days. We connect at bed and fall asleep connected. In the morning we connect again and start our day with a hour long lovemaking. We don't fix our time. We just act naturally. There are times when we connect just for a few minutes in a busy evening and there are times when we connect for 3-4 hours on a weekend night.

What is bit different from what we do and karezza is we don't have rules. We both know that orgasm is just an impulse which ruins the sustained pleasure. We both avoid having orgasm to keep our lovemaking flowing. But there are some rare days when we engaged in slow conventional sex specially before her menstrual days. We actually do what we enjoy and don't mind to have a orgasmic day in a month.

Our approach to each other has changed so much. My wife now hold my hands, hug or kiss me with no reason. And I don't miss a chance to be intimate with her when alone together. We find ourselves more active and lively. Our kids find us more caring and friendly.

My wife has been always a cuddly type. Connecting before was her idea which sounded cute and romantic to me. We started it as fun and now it has become our daily practice. We found the true way of making love. I don't think we will ever go back to our old conventional sex life.

(robertwinston) I have practiced this for about five years and am now able to control my orgasms almost entirely. It has been wonderful for my partner, who climaxes over and over again every time we make love. Contrary to the Karezza theory, that does not diminish her desire or enjoyment whatsoever, even though it clearly does for me. On the contrary, because she knows it will always be good for her, her sex drive and enjoyment are high. I am an older guy, so infrequent orgasms help me to maintain my capacity and desire. This "modified Karezza" has been wonderful. She has all the orgasms she desires, and I am pleased to "give" them to her.

(Correspondent to Marnia) The wife and I both skip orgasm sometimes during sex, we lay beside each other and have long slow sex (30 min or so). I enjoy doing this so much and I do feel better, closer the next day. The wife has a harder time than I do believe it or not, skipping the orgasm part. I have shared this with a couple of guys I know and they say they just can't do it! But, it is really nice. I like to do this almost daily with an orgasm maybe after 3 or 4 days. We have been married over 25 yrs, I am in my mid 50's. For me, it makes me feel closer to the wife. I love rubbing her back and relaxing while doing sex. Maybe it is wanting to repeat the experience soon that makes me feel that way! What I have learned is, if I can go 20 or 30 minutes (I am not talking going like a jack hammer!)
just slow sex and then stop, after a couple of minutes, the need for an orgasm subsides and I feel ok. I am always ready to go again the next day.



No Single Answer, Perhaps

I'm new here, and about 2/3 through Cupid's Poison Arrow. It confirms, with some good science, what I have been thinking for quite a while.

Previously, I read Diane Richardson's book, and also an excellent little book called "Slow Love: A Polynesian Pillow Book". Apparently, this book was translated into Japanese and has been received very well there.


So...based on the comments above, and my own reading, I'm not convinced there is a single answer to this question about whether karezza can a part of the program, rather than the whole program. I'm reminded of how there doesn't seem to be a one size fits all solution to the issue of nutrition, or psychotherapy, or monogamy vs any one of the many configurations of polyamory, macro-economics - or any other modality that engages the complexity of the human organism.

Clearly there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (see this thread, for example) that shows people getting what they want using some sort of hybrid model - as well as anecdotal evidence (from Marnie and her husband, and others) about how a hybrid model doesn't work for them.