very difficult, aloof women....

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Hope this is in the right place...I have a theory.... and a question, both, really.... So men went into it this way... being addicted to the form, creating an addiction to "lust" thereby creating our situation for the most of us.

For women, It was not so obvious... see, instead of creating an ideal "porn star" image that was an ideal they were attracted to, they created the prince charming image that created them so many problems...most women I know won't even take a chance with a man even if they haven't gotten laid in ages, bc he aint even half the man they dreamed up, just like a man can't get off bc he is used to porn star images...So heres the dilemna...
In my experience, I grew up in an extremist, religious, brainwashed upbringing. I have been with only 6 women and I am the family slut by a long shot just to put in perspective(total family cousins grandchildren, etc, like 100 or 200 people). Now a few years ago, I learned of a technique: bust the woman's chops, tease her, make fun of her, in a subtle enough way to make her laugh, but not enough to really offend her. The idea is you are borrowing ideas from the a**holes, the "bad boys" that all women are attracted to, but not actually being one. This brought me limited success, but never in the amount I wanted. Ultimately, I simply want, not to be a man-whore, but to have the power to choose the one I want, a power like 90 something % of all women enjoy.
Then there is this idea of chivalry and treating a women like a goddess. All I know is that, in the right context, this can be very powerful, too. Ultimately I would choose this option as its really the way I want to be. Sacred Sexuality, You are as my Goddess, I am as your God. But most women I know don't respond to this, act like the guy's just a pushover, and eventually completely ignore him.

I see they are jaded by their power. how did they get this power? the chicken or the egg? as mantak chia says in his book, women find it easier to not waste sexually energy bc their organs are on the inside, making it easier for that energy to be drawn inward and upward, through the chakras, wheras man has learned to expel it when its too much, or did it happen this way? Over time, maybe women were first to learn this technique, which over time and evolution of body and spirit (the body forms around the soul, say personologists), their organs moved more inward. In the bible it says eve was first to try the fruit and it was told her by the serpent, which, if you are into the gnostic idea like me, you read into everything and reading between the lines, the serpent telling her this points to kundalini and women learned it first over time, then taught it to men. Add to this the fact that men have put women in lower positions politically and spiritually and treated them "lower" for ages and even denied the divine feminine, women have learned to use their subtle energy to control man as a defense mechanism. Now does this "karezza" idea, the tao lovemaking way of sharing more yang with a woman than can be shared in traditional lovemaking, change this balance? Do women respond differently when the inherent energy a man brings to a situation is different? more like he is trying to make friends first? Treat her as his Goddess? Or does this treating them as a goddess thing have to be tempered with the above teasing, busting chops thing?

Its not that I necessarily want it to be easy, or not really have to work for it, just that I think I shouldn't have to. There should be some cosmic connection, instinct, I know its there cuz I felt it at times, something that guides us to the right people with little effort. But why are women so difficult? I mean, I've had women friends tell me I'm "gorgeous", "good-looking", etc and girlfriends tell me I'm the best person they ever met, yet I have such a hard time getting dates, or getting close to women, not like I'm doing some stupid redneck maneuvres or something, don't understand why this is so difficult? maybe I'm not as great as they tell me, but I see lesser men get women all the time. I have learned things most men don't ever even know about how to please a woman, and even know how to have non-ejaculatory, multiple O's for me, which should definitely help her in the yin-yang equation, I can transmit more total yang if I don't just expel it, just want someone to share this with. So, women out there, and men chime in too if have some insight, what's going on here? Or maybe, women living in the same area as me with a certain predominant religion, they all grew up with the same brainwashing, only they only simply realized they didn't want to live that religious and chose a different path unlike me who realized the depth of the brainwashing and seeks to undo it every day, choosing a VERY different path, thereby making me more completely free of it. Wow this is a mouthful. Do what u will with it.

Interesting

You say they are "jaded by their power."

If a woman gets hit on by guys a lot just because she is attractive in some way, she is probably going to be suspicious of guys. Rightfully so, because they aren't hitting on Her, they are just hitting her up. I think on a bunch of levels women have to be suspicious of guys. Another reason is--we can impregnate them, and we might just be losers who impregnate them and then disappear. So, there are evolutionary and cultural reasons for certain difficulties.

In my limited experience, you have to be "whole" without the woman. If there is some neediness, if you are following her around, if you are trying to complete yourself in some way through her, you are going to set off the "suspicion." It's very sensitive and very accurate. Don't bother trying to fool it. Even if you could, who would that be helping?

Instead, you make sure your own world is solid and fulfilling to you. Then you have something to share. And when you meet someone who has something to share back, something you want, then getting together isn't work.

(Sometimes it's work no matter what you do. Ha ha. You sound like a very deep guy. Don't settle for someone who is just beautiful and charming. You need someone you can really talk to.)

Power? What power?

[quote=etgalore]You say they are "jaded by their power."

If a woman gets hit on by guys a lot just because she is attractive in some way, she is probably going to be suspicious of guys. Rightfully so, because they aren't hitting on Her, they are just hitting her up.[/quote]

YES. This, in a nutshell, is my life.

Read my blog...I get hit on every. flipping. day. because of my resemblance to a certain pinup queen. I hate it. (And the idea that I can choose any guy I want is laughable. All the guys I *really* find appealing are terrified of me.) I can't speak for ALL women, but I personally am frustrated and resentful. "Jaded" is a long way in the other direction.

BTW, I've been engaged twice. Neither guy was what I really wanted, but they treated me like a goddess, and I was hooked. THAT is the power of not being a jerk. Just a little food for thought.

To clarify, I don't believe

To clarify, I don't believe in being a jerk, what I am talking about is a funny icebreaker that lets a woman know I am having fun with her, not just "hitting on", or "hitting her up". For example, I was in a bar, and asked the girl next to me to buy me a drink. We had already exchanged a few words. She said something like, "I don't have enough money." I then turned away slightly, not all the way, and said "Jerk", in a mock appalled tone. She of course knew I was joking, and started sitting closer to me :D. I guess you have helped me see it this way, as I think this is the way this "technique" is meant to be used. I get insecure at times and forget, getting in a mentality of "lowering" her to my level, which I feel at those times is lower than her, which it isn't really. Not that I say anything mean at these times, just that I think this feeling makes it not work as well.
From what you say about yourself, you remind me of the women I *really* like but can't seem to approach. I can tell these women really like me too. I can see it in their eyes, but they can't seem to approach me either. This is one thing that really messes with me, not being able to approach, I can actually handle rejection, even though Im white-grip-of-death afraid of it until it happens. Guess I'll just keep working on myself and practicing by meeting new people till I can. Or maybe I'll just get through that first approach where i stutter and pee my pants(kidding) or vomit in her face out of sheer nervousness(kidding), and the rest will be easier.

Lemuria

[quote]Over time, maybe women were first to learn this technique, which over time and evolution of body and spirit (the body forms around the soul, say personologists), their organs moved more inward. In the bible it says eve was first to try the fruit and it was told her by the serpent, which, if you are into the gnostic idea like me, you read into everything and reading between the lines, the serpent telling her this points to kundalini and women learned it first over time, then taught it to men.[/quote]
Since you brought up Gnostic ideas, I'd like to mention one common interpretation of the book of Genesis among Gnostics.

It is thought that the first race of humans to "fall" sexually to orgasm used to be hermaphrodites, both male and female. Samael Aun Weor believed that the evidence for our original forms can be found in vestigial organs, such as nipples on men and the clitoris (an "atrophied penis", as he worded it) in women. This race lived on a continent named Lemuria, and so were called the Lemurians.

The Lemurians eventually split into distinct male and female forms, and became the Adams and Eves of their Garden. It was around this time that the "serpents", the souls of the previous human races who failed to achieve self-realization, came to the Earth and convinced the Lemurians to end their practice of having sex without the "forbidden fruit" of orgasm.

The weakness that was exploited was the feminine sides of both the men and women of Lemuria, which compelled them to adapt to nature's program and fall out of divinity. The feminine side is receptive, so it adapts more quickly (whether that be to something "good" or "bad"). The "Eve" which tricked "Adam", in this instance, was not a real person, but a psychological aspect.

"Hello new friend, my name is Fred! The words you hear are in my head.
I say, I said, my name is Fred! And I've been... very nauuughtyyy..."

Cade,

I don't know if there's a "right strategy." I do, however, think that when you cultivate your sexual energy responsibly and for as high a purpose as you can, you tend to attract those qualities in a partner - even if they don't use the same "lingo" as you do.

What is your goal in your next relationship? Is it to produce multiple orgasms all around? Use your sexual energy for a higher purpose? What? Maybe you are still divided about your goals, so you're not attracting anyone until you get clearer.

What can you do to find some like-minded friends? Meditation group? Yoga class? Online group? Sounds like you might otherwise be looking for a needle in a haystack.

Let us know how it goes. You're not alone in this quest to find a healthy relationship.

just to clarify, I meant

just to clarify, I meant religious brainwashing mainly in the sense of telling people over and over sex is bad, evil, wrong, etc., don't do it. Basically creating people who grow up inherently feeling guilty and wrong about it.
As far as gnostic texts, I was thinking about the ones mentioning the original humans or Aeons who were androgynous(thats the word used in some I've read). Actually now that I've read one of mantak chia's book, not that hes the ultimate authority in taoism, but its the only real thing I've read on taoism, I think they meant by androgynous that they were balanced with the Yin and Yang, close to 50/50. "When you were one, you became two, but when you are two what will you do?"
I personally don't care for Samael Aun Weor, for example, it is my understanding that he has said things like homosexuals are "rotten seeds" or something like that, that bc they cannot create procreationally, they cannot create spiritually or something like that. Now I'm straight, but have had friends who were gay, I don't like this or think there is any truth to it. Also, I don't think gnostic texts are all meant to be taken literally, I think there are different meanings to be found, thats why they kind of "don't make sense" so you open your mind and think.

Got off the subject a

Got off the subject a little.... so Marnia, I am just looking for someone to be with, practice this idea which is relatively new to me, dual cultivation, multiple valley O's, and ultimately that energy will enlighten us, and if this practice leads to us wanting to be together, thats ok too, I'm just not attached to the form, if its going to be only once or a few times, thats ok, but leading to more is ok too. I don't think its really possible in todays world to completely love someone your first time together. As far as clear intentions being what works, I don't know, but I have found in the past it's powerful to lay things out up front with the ladies, like this is what I'm about, this is how I am. For example I've told chicks b4 that I don't tend to make the first move physically bc I'm not about invading personal space. Sometimes I still do make that first move, but saying I don't makes them not think anything weird cuz I haven't made a move yet(Some chicks think a man's gay or give up if he doesn't make a move in a certain time frame, for example). Actually, thanks for reminding me of this, it may help. Yeah I used to do better when I was up front about who I am, now I think about it.

My understanding of

enlightened consciousness is that it is both spontaneous and guided from within. Rigid rules of any kind (even about dating) run contrary to that. Be in the moment. If it's time to "invade someone's space" because she's giving you those signals, invade. If she's not, don't.

That said, I also agree with this maxim:

Don't think you can attain total awareness and whole enlightenment without proper discipline and practice. This is egomania. Appropriate rituals channel your emotions and life energy toward the light. Without the discipline to practice them, you will tumble constantly backward into darkness. Here is the great secret: Just as high awareness of the subtle truth is gained through virtuous conduct and sustaining disciplines, so also is it maintained through these things. Highly evolved beings know and respect the truth of this.

Not easy to put those together, but my thought is that it is the self-discipline that makes the brain more sensitive to subtle signals. Then, in the moment, you can operate spontaneously.

Any thoughts?

I'm not a big fan of the late Samael Aun Weor either, but I'm always interested to read other's "takes" on sacred sexuality, even if they contain bits that I view as distorted. Anyone wanting a taste: http://www.reuniting.info/wisdom/sources/neo-gnostic_samael_aun_weor

The reason I have issues

The reason I have issues with "invading" someones space is bc I grew up in an abusive home and where people one minute one time would be nice about a certain situation and at another time they would completely turn around, so I guess I am afraid I can be getting the right signals and try to make a move and get "what the hell, what are you doing?" kind of attitude.

I understand

but you don't want to go through life being puppeted by past dysfunction. Maybe affirm to yourself (often, for a while), that you "always read others' signals perfectly, and only make closer contact when they welcome it."

Yeah, part of my problem is

Yeah, part of my problem is that, when I get in one of those moments, where it is time to move things to the next level, and I have a gut feeling tell me to make a move, usually at the getting the phone number stage, I'll chicken out, thinking, she seems to like me, I'll get another chance, but, by the time that other chance comes, I'm scared bc I have had a lot more time to think about it (No Good). Maybe that's my problem in general, I way overthink everything until it just goes bad. Might as well sit and think to myself "I don't want this to work" over and over... actually that would probably be more effective than what I am doing bc the thought process doesn't distinquish don't's and only sends out into the universe what I am actually thinking about.

Once you see a problem

you can fix it. Maybe make a game out of getting phone numbers...like a scavenger hunt. Once you can do that with ease the next step (phoning Smile ) might be easier.

Be gentle with yourself. This awkward time will pass. You just have to get started.

*big hug*

Alright... so, I have been

Alright... so, I have been assimilating that which has been told to me here by the womenfolk...
Thinking about it...
So, at one time, I found myself a 25 year old virgin who had never really even been kissed, other than those childhood "play" kisses, and I had to do something about it... I found information through friends, the internet, etc., and the majority said that, basically, you have to act like James Bond. Yes, James Bond. Although, i think certain aspects of this idea help, like confidence, for example, you can't even talk to people without it,...... Imagine having to live up to that! You're average guy has to be like James Bond to get a woman....And, although this information / material helped a lot in ways, I'm thinking back, and.....
I've had plenty of experiences where, the more I liked a woman, the more she responded to me, or the more I acted in a way that got a positive response... And I'm thinking, what if James Bond doesn't work? what if the more I liked them, the more they responded, bc I actually was acting a little nervous, or in a way that let them know I liked them? What if they always know how much I like them, based on body language, etc., and this is what really hits a woman deep down and gets them to like me? What if what is said here is true and that acting nervous and having that be real is more powerful than having a false bravado that goes away quite soon after I am talking / interacting with her, bc I really am nervous and can't really hide it. What if it works bc it doesn't seem like I am "hitting on" them and bc the "normal" way I now approach them makes me seem more like the real gentleman I am bc I don't use lines or anything, I just approach in a more natural way? In fact, the women I *really* liked and seemed to really like me, it didn't even seem to matter what I did or how I acted (within reason). So, its actually possible treating women good works with the right women (I know for a fact that many women react better to being mistreated, but.... Don't really think I want those women anyway...)
I have met a few women lately and I am scared to death almost bc it defies me that they just seem to like me without me doing anything special. Its like a shock to my core. I feel like Todd in Soldier when the woman goes to hug him and he starts shaking all over bc it is such a shock to his system. I was basically programmed, no literally brainwashed from a child that I don't deserve anything (anyone) good in my life and that I can't do anything right. I don't know. This is scary, mostly bc I am really approaching it for the first time. I have done much healing in the past two years, and although I have been in these situations before, now I am approaching it without the sort of mental dazed/drunkenness of still living in childhood abuse and sexual addiction. Even after a few drinks, I think and feel as if I am more "sober" now than ever...
There you have it again. I am longwinded... the critical thinker of reuniting... Biggrin

Sounds like things

are shifting right under your nose as you heal. Smile Be bold.

And forget everything you ever heard about James Bond. As you can see, the women like you for yourself. It's okay to go slow.

*big hug*

James Bond

[quote=cadethefaun]And I'm thinking, what if James Bond doesn't work? what if the more I liked them, the more they responded, bc I actually was acting a little nervous, or in a way that let them know I liked them? What if they always know how much I like them, based on body language, etc., and this is what really hits a woman deep down and gets them to like me? What if what is said here is true and that acting nervous and having that be real is more powerful than having a false bravado that goes away quite soon after I am talking / interacting with her, bc I really am nervous and can't really hide it. What if it works bc it doesn't seem like I am "hitting on" them and bc the "normal" way I now approach them makes me seem more like the real gentleman I am bc I don't use lines or anything, I just approach in a more natural way?[/quote]

Bingo, baby. Smart women know James Bond types are just a fantasy...and if James Bond were real, he certainly wouldn't be boyfriend material. He drinks, he's always away, he has a dangerous job, and he once threatened to spank Miss Moneypenny over his knee. No thanks.

I can't speak for all women, but I'd rather meet a blushing, stammering young man than a slick James Bond type.

Bummer.... I was working up

Bummer.... I was working up courage to ask this girl at work out... I really like her so I was very nervous and she seemed nervous and we'd been talking and worked up to a conversation that actually lasted a few min the other day.... Today the boss told me the job had ended for me. It was a temp job.... I haven't liked anyone like that in a great while... but, although she seemed like she was special, maybe I felt that way cuz I was ready to. There will be others right? Sad

Hey!

Leave her a note at work and tell her you'd like to get together. It's even better if you're not working together.

Do it! [hamster]

Easier doesn't always equal

Easier doesn't always equal better. Talk to the girl. Think of your worst case scenario, she says 1)not interested or 2)I have a boyfriend. Then you walk away and never see her again. Neither of those two (bad) answers are your fault, they have nothing to do with you so you can't count them against your character. If you don't ask then you won't get the chance for her to say 1)yes or 2)hell yes! or 3)HELL YES cade, why haven't you asked me out earlier, you are the man of my dreams!

Leaving a note for her means that you may have to wait a long time for a response. She may not respond for days or weeks and all that time you will be thinking about her and wondering if she is going to contact you. If you talk to her, then you find out immediately, yes or no, either you're in or you're out, but you won't dwell on it. If it's no, you move on right THEN not waiting 3 weeks to hear from her and passing up other opportunities to find another great girl you connect with.

Asking her out will not be the hardest thing you will have to do in your life. Hell, it's probably not the hardest thing you've probably already done in your life. If you've felt some chemistry with this girl before, than she will probably be happy you came in and talked to her, most girls will not make the first move..overtly. If she is not interested, then you will not burst into flames or have a giant rock fall on you, you will move on and forget her because you will find someone else.

Man... I feel so stupid...

Man... I feel so stupid... All I can say in my defense is: Panic Disorder is for real. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, it literally feels like I will die if I ask her. It's like standing at the edge of a tall building thinking what it would be like to jump. Exact same feeling, in fact. I only mention this because when I explain panic disorder to some people they act like it is the same as just being nervous or something easy to get over.
But, I have been reassigned morning shift at the next warehouse over, same company, down the street. Who knows, maybe I will be sent to the other warehouse to help with moving something, maybe we will bump into each other again, or maybe I will still work up the courage to go over there and talk to her. I won't give up on myself just yet.
At the very least, I resolve to start making friends with more people, especially women, and become more comfortable around them until this doesn't happen again.
You know, actually the heights thing mentioned above gave me an idea: maybe I will take up rock climbing again and it will help me work through my fears. The first fall is always the hardest...

Rock climbing is the biggest

Rock climbing is the biggest stress relief I haver ever discovered, you have no choice but to think about your next move. I do it twice a week. I believe in panic disorder. When I was a child I was extremely shy. My father, who unbeknownst to me was addicted to porn, was a very passive man, my mother on the other hand was was tough as shit. She grew up on a farm, the oldest of 11 children. She told me what I told you. I was scared of everything, but she told me,"they're not going to kill you." Every time I didn't want to speak in front of my class or do something I was afraid of, she reminded of what was the worst thing that can happen. I know it sounds kind of screwed up, but it works. Whatever happens between you and this girl, you will not die. Embarrassment is not real, it is a figment of your imagination.

If this girl is somewhat cute then you won't be the first guy to try and ask her out. Your hesitation is what other guys hope for. She will not stay single for long. I understand what fear is, what is it you have to lose? What you have to gain(date with girl) should outweigh what your loss would be. She will NOT ask you out. If you are waiting for that, then you are probably waisting your time. Girls want to be asked out, because for what ever fear you have, hers is worse. If you want to be the good guy then ask her out, because if you don't, some asshole with a lot of confidence will. The way I see it, you would be doing her a huge favor by not letting her be subjugated to some guy that won't treat right.

Panic

[quote=cadethefaun]Man... I feel so stupid... All I can say in my defense is: Panic Disorder is for real. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, it literally feels like I will die if I ask her. It's like standing at the edge of a tall building thinking what it would be like to jump. Exact same feeling, in fact. I only mention this because when I explain panic disorder to some people they act like it is the same as just being nervous or something easy to get over. [/quote]

I believe you. I haven't had a panic attack in years, but I still have similar feelings every time I contemplate approaching someone.

Maybe

leave her a note, telling her you're working nearby and asking if you can meet for a bite at lunch or to take a walk.

No one doubts that the panic is real, but there's nothing like the feeling of slowly overcoming it by crawling forward, however slowly at first.

*big hug*

I think alot more women

I think alot more women settle for less than their "prince charming" than we think. They like to appear aloof, but in actuality their "standards" (if we want to be so blunt) are not as high as they pretend. Im a 22year old virgin though, so I know nothing haha.

Like somebody said, its part of evolution. Females have to be more picky about their mates because they cant just go knock somebody else up right away if their first mate is sub-par.

You're partly right

A lot of women DO settle for men who aren't Prince Charming by a long shot, but based on my own observations, I believe it has more to do with the fact that they don't believe they *deserve* Prince Charming. Even now, little girls are trained from a very early age to be "nice" instead of assertive and to bend over backwards to make everyone like them, mean little boys included.

In the words of my 10-year-old self: Gag.

BOTH genders need to treat each other with respect, support each other as equals, have reasonable expectations, and learn to be in a healthy, loving partnership.

You are dead-on about females needing to be pickier, though. I have a friend who made a few mistakes in the romance department and has two ex-husbands who both owe her about three years' worth of back child support.

I think David Deida deals

I think David Deida deals very well with how to be both strongly masculine and to "worhsip". But I think worship to him means something else than it has meant in your mind and in the mind of most guys who normally talk about that. I think women are normally turned of by the worshipfull guys because it usually actually is needy and often manipulative even if the guys don`t realize it. Deida teaches you how to cherish a woman for her radiance and love while coming from a position of strength, of yang.

I also recomend reading the book marriedmansexlife and the blog with the same name. It works on how to balance alpha and beta qualites in order to get a relationship to work. It is very effective at making relationships work well.

THe authentic man program would also be something to look into.

I think the most important thing for you is healing yourself psychologically. I highly recomend the inner smile and six healing sounds for that. Check out the posts by Dmattwarads at thetaobums.com to see how well he treated his own psychological issues with those excercises. Just look up his archive of posts and you will find a couple of thread about that. Many of his issues are closely related to yours.

My two cents: I do not think

My two cents: I do not think girls fall for prince charming. But are just looking for charming. I have alot of sisters. When I talk to women, I talk to them like my sisters. I am always joking, and genuine. Everything else falls into place.

Your comments: "but I see lesser men get women all the time. I have learned things most men don't ever even know about how to please a woman, and even know how to have non-ejaculatory, multiple O's for me, which should definitely help her in the yin-yang equation" remind me of my friend. He is 6 ft 4, and 250 pounds of all muscle. He looks at other men in a similar ways as you do. I am not going to assume your egotiscal, but that statement sounded like it. Its not about should or should nots it all about the connection.

My cousin, who is one of the most successful ladies man I ever saw, told me two things. Make a girl feel comfortable and make a girl feel special. Comfort comes from conversation, being interesting, and being genuine. Special is after you have reached a certain comfort level, and doing little things to show you care.

Speaking of princes...

[quote=Grover]My cousin, who is one of the most successful ladies man I ever saw, told me two things. Make a girl feel comfortable and make a girl feel special.[/quote]

Supposedly, this is why Prince Aly Khan was so good with the ladies. He always kept his attention on his current conquest, even when a more attractive woman walked into the room.

Wasn't Aly married to Rita

Wasn't Aly married to Rita Hayworth? I think part of his "being so good with the ladies" was also the fact that he was super rich Wink .Keeping his eye on his current conquest would probably keep a lot of ladies attracted to him as well. I'm sure a lot of women wanted his attention, especially since he didn't pay it to them. }:)

How did we start talking about Aly Khan on cade's "aloof women" thread?

Charm

[quote=theprodigalsun]How did we start talking about Aly Khan on cade's "aloof women" thread?[/quote]

He wanted to know how to approach women...I'm just giving him a tip that happens to be very effective. If a guy is talking to me and gets distracted by a prettier girl, he's definitely not getting my number.

unfair

@pinup...Usually when I am talking to a girl, someone I know will come up and distract me. I really try to stay focused on the original girl, but that is difficult. I have realized that even though I talk to alot of women, and may be "distracted", in my mind if you the right woman you are the right woman. Despite all of the distractions, I really only want to get with you. There is a certain type of woman I am looking for. Intelligent, put-together. Currently, I already found that woman, but its complicated

its not that complicated

She is a very put together person, and I really have no idea how to deal with it. Most women make it really obvious that they are attacted to me; want me to call; want me to text; want me to take them out. So, the story goes, she went out of her way to give me her number. So, I take it and call her and text her. She always responds when I do, and is always very receptive. But, if I dont call or text, which happens in these busy cycles of school, organizations, and job, I wont ever hear from her. Then when I see her its sort of awkward lol. Her time gets taken by all of these other women that call and text me all the time. She makes me indecisive because I guess she is just harder to get.

urgh iphones

What a chemistry killer!!!
Just watch how disconnected you feel when you're talking to someone and they start playing with their phone part way through the convo.

Karezza is about sensitivity - i believe it applies to conversations.
I think that a discussion that is connected or in 'flow' is one of the greatest pleasures in life.

Happiness = Simple things :)

I'm in a similar boat so I

I'm in a similar boat so I know how you feel. The way I look at it is until you go on that first date and then possible start dating then I wouldn't put any worry into it. If she really is that great then it kind of is too bad that she is so difficult to pin down. The fact that she returns your messages is a good enough sign I would say. Spend your time with other women, like you're already doing, and eventually her time will come. Have a girl that's put together and not dropping her whole life to call and text you just shows that she is very put together like you said.

I just introduced myself to

I just introduced myself to my neighbors that I have lived next to for 1 1/2-2 years! Took me 4 beers to get up the courage, and I was still nervous enought to feel sick. But I just had to do it. Something in me wouldn't let it go, I guess chickening out of chances to meet people has made me sort of miserable, or I don't know whats the right word for it, have a burning fire inside that wants to overcome my extreme phobias. I just had to do it...
They were both married, and very nice(for some reason I have this dread / delusion that really bad things will happen when I think about taking risks like this). Looks like we're going to be friends now, and hot women usually have at least a few friends... }:)

Well, I did it...I had to

Well, I did it...
I had to keep telling myself in the back of my mind as I was driving there that I could chicken out at anytime, otherwise, I don't think I would have made it all the way there...
I asked her if she had a minute, took her aside.
Me: C, got a minute? (I motioned her over, she was in the break room next to others and I like sort of quiet, away from people for these things)
Her: What's wrong? Me: I was in the neighborhood, and I just thought I'd stop by and say hi, and I wanted to ask you something... Are you single? Her: No... Why? Me: I wanted to see if you wanted to join me for ice cream... or, lunch or something...? Her: (smiling) I'm sorry... That sounds like fun... (At this point, I think there was communication, or a few words said, but I can't remember, then, a few seconds later) That's sweet, though.... Me: Alright, well I'll see you... (I half-turned to go, then turned back)... Unless you want to swap numbers anyway and be friends... get to know each other....
She told me her phone was shut off at the moment, said she was poor, but I wrote my number down and she took it. Somewhere in between she again said something like it was sweet of me to ask.
I guess the only thing that bugs me about this is that I don't quite understand. I worked in the far corner of the warehouse and she had kept finding excuses to come over and say hi, and when we first met, she gave me this look I haven't seen in years, a kind of "I like you" look. My first girlfriend in college gave me this same look sometimes and she was the nicest gf I've had as far as doing nice things for me, taking me to breakfast, taking me to movies, coming over all the time just to say hi, etc.
Or, maybe I do understand it. Seems sometimes women just want attention, or a confidence boost.
I wouldn't have been able to do this without talking to my neighbors, though, it took away, not the fear, but some of the idea that the fear was real, that bad and horrible things would happen if I did this. None of the bad things I thought up actually happened, except for the "no".

Quite honestly,

You are making huge progress Cade. I hope you're giving yourself credit. By the time you find someone who *is* the right person to ask out, you'll be ready for it. Trust the timing and just keep taking the steps that show up. Training is just as important as the next real mission. Smile

*big hug*

women

Women are dominated by their subconscience and genes. If they're not out searching for ''high quality'' men to produce offspring, they are trying to find a guy who matches the father that was absent/abusive or any childhood needs that were lacking. Women are attracted to these ''lower rednecks'' because they are receiving validation and a thrill in their lives to kill the mundane boredom they go through. The majority of humans on this planet are not interested in a higher experience of living but self gratification and a fulfilling of primal needs. Women in the past were relegated to a lesser role of providing for the man and family but because of feminism they are stuck in feeling the need to be independent and productive and also being a provider as their genes dictate. So you basically have a clusterfuck of individuals who claim to want one thing yet are not totally appalled by the caveman approach. This current celeb culture/internet attention worship also plays a big role.

Not necessarily.

[quote=jj314]...but because of feminism they are stuck in feeling the need to be independent and productive and also being a provider as their genes dictate.[/quote]

Not true. Male providers might lose their jobs, become too injured or ill to work, lose everything in a lawsuit or bad investment, abandon their partners and children, or die. A woman with her own income has a "safety net" if any of those things happen - and it's dangerous to assume one's own situation is bulletproof.

And believe it or not, many women LIKE being independent and productive. I'm one of them.

i

[quote=Pinup][quote=jj314]...but because of feminism they are stuck in feeling the need to be independent and productive and also being a provider as their genes dictate.[/quote]

Not true. Male providers might lose their jobs, become too injured or ill to work, lose everything in a lawsuit or bad investment, abandon their partners and children, or die. A woman with her own income has a "safety net" if any of those things happen - and it's dangerous to assume one's own situation is bulletproof.

And believe it or not, many women LIKE being independent and productive. I'm one of them.[/quote]

I wasn't saying women shouldn't like being independent and productive. I meant that even if a woman is successful in life she will still want to settle down with a man and have a family and expect the man to do his part and nothing less (jerks are popular choices because they initiate the first encounter and let the girl know that they are alpha material for breeding). If a man falls ill or dies then the woman steps up to secure the family unit.

You know, now I think about

You know, now I think about it, I remember during our conversation she mentioned her boyfriend. He works there too, and she told me his name and asked if I had met him and said something about him not being the jealous type at all. I just realized this is a good sign and means my instincts are becoming clearer and I'm becoming more attracted to women who DON'T like jerks.

So, I'm about to go on a

So, I'm about to go on a road trip and visit family in another state for a few weeks, maybe I will meet someone there, and I'm thinking about moving there, too, nicer area, nicer people and everything.
But, in the meantime, I keep thinking about why I find it so hard to make and keep friends in general. pretty much most of the friends I ever make don't bother to come by just to visit or say hi, I have to do all the work in the friendship, and they end up leaving my life. They also never do thing like stick up for me when I'm not around and someone says negative things and just generally seem to treat me like I'm a lower social class. Even though I get the same warm greetings, for example, I get treated different than the others in the group.
I just stopped going to my favorite bar in town. A few weeks ago I just had this gut feeling tell me, "don't come back here for a good while." It felt like this gut feeling was saying about 2-3 months. I ignored it a week later, wanted to go out and have some fun friday and saturday night.
I am a bit shy, but I still try and make an effort to say hi and introduce myself and hopefully make friends. Two people I thought I had made friends with at this bar, and they are always there on weekends, were "cockblocking" me all weekend! Meaning everytime I started a conversation with a woman, they would swoop in and say something, or start talking, basically draw the girl's attention away from me until the connection was lost. Once I even made eye contact as a girl was walking in my direction as I'm sitting at the bar, and the way she looked back was promising, and one of these guys swoops in out of nowhere and starts talking to her. It seemed he talked to her until she was sick of talking and went away. He is married, by the way, so why would he care about me making a connection?
I just don't understand... I'm a nice guy. I have never done anything unkind to these people. Only thing I can think of is this:
A few years ago, me and a female friend were talking about this. I lived in a different city at the time, a party town and some people were always looking for an excuse to fight. People kept wanting to fight me in this town for "looking at them funny". I like to make eye contact with everybody, and when drunk, I guess I look a bit more cheerful or maybe sullen than usual, so I guess this bothers some people. So we got into this conversation about it, and she told me how she had actually explained to people who said whatever about me that I was a nice guy, and that the reason people get this way is bc they don't know how to take me. I don't play any of the normal social games everyone else plays, I don't "social-lies"(pun intended) like everybody else, I don't kiss a$$, and I don't treat anyone better than anyone else simply bc of social status, but I treat those who are loyal and respectful to me with reciprocation. (I found a few posts here on asperger's interesting, by the way) Just so everyone knows, I drink in a lot more moderation now than then, and am positive I am not just being a drunken idiot. (though how the other drunken idiots would be able to tell this themselves would be beyond me). I usually only have a few, enough for a good buzz.
So, maybe people, and especially people in my area, are just drama addicts, and bc I don't show a lot of ups and downs compared to others, they don't find me interesting, maybe lower quality people in general, or maybe I just had bad luck and should follow what my gut said and find a different place to hang out. Or maybe I should'nt care what they think. Maybe I don't really care and the reason I am thinking about this is simply bc I am feeling lonely. It would be nice if even one friend would just show up once in a while and say hi, for no other reason than to say hi.
Well, at least I still experience bonding behaviors with women in my dreams....

I have a major problem with feeling unliked as well.

I've had it since I was like 8 or 9 years old, I'm 36 now. For years I didn't even think about it much, tho I still felt it enough; it just didn't get to me. I looked down on a lot of the bs in socializing (social lying as you mention) and didn't even make an effort to participate in it. I felt superior to others often, and this was a separating mindset of course. But now I realize I've truly failed to love others anywhere near as much as is called for. I've analyzed why I've felt so universally and consistently alienated in seemingly every forum I participate in. The one controllable factor I come up with is that I could love more, much more; I now see this as my vocation in a sense, to love. To work at it. There are adversaries and haters; and mockers and those who talk behind your back, fake friends; I could let them bother me, but instead I am going to love them too; somewhere in all this I will find true friends, and I'll have to work at loving them too, because it does involve work for me, but it is worth it.

Hope you have a good trip, Cade

Who knows? Maybe you are supposed to move back. If so, you'll eventually look back at your current social life and be glad you didn't feel so at home.

I haven't met you, but you seem fine to me. Smile That goes for Telepathy, too. Both of you should be glad you're less shallow than average. It makes it more likely that you'll think about Larger Issues.

So, I am on a few dating

So, I am on a few dating sites, and I have no clue how to talk to someone this way. The connection just isn't there. In person, I can follow her cues, body language, voice tone, and know sort of what to say, but here I don't really know what to say, or how to put it, other than talk about / ask about something said in their profile. I took a test in college that said I am chiefly a Bodily/Kinesthetic learner so I guess this is why. I could use some ideas though...
Daaaaggh! I guess I feel the lack of direct connection and that's what really makes it hard for me, it feels like I don't know who I'm talking to.
My trip has been delayed, by the way...

Why not say

exactly what you said here and propose a meeting? That seems to be the wisdom here anyway...get off the dating chitchat and down to a face-to-face meeting ASAP. It sorts the wheat from the chaff very promptly.

I feel kinda weird about

I feel kinda weird about reviving this, but thought, it's part of the same journey and I'll just post here. My trip has been delayed for the past 5 or 6 months, but I did have a work opportunity that brought me to another state for a while.

I just have to say, I think my major problem is the women around here. Maybe it's due to the predominant religion/cult, but I realize now women here act differently...

So, I'm in another state, trying out the new way of doing things. No James Bond, no being a total smartass. The idea is to treat them well, make them feel beautiful, and everything. Their responses surprised me. I'm just showing basic kindness, sort of, and they are responding back very positively. One girl kept smiling while she wrote down her number... This was also the first girl I ever bought a drink. She lit up when I told her I was buying her next beer...

But, I thought about it, and realized that I had been overall pretty nice to the women at home. But they have a sense of entitlement. I realized that the same treatment I had been giving these women in another state never worked on them. When you are nice to them, they are bitchy back, and when you do things for them, it's not enough.

I believe it has a lot to do with the predominant religion and its ideals of marriage and everything gives women the idea from growing up with this ideal that they are special in some way and no man is good enough for them or something unless he follows their religious standards and does everything for them. I think any religion that teaches "sex is bad, evil" in any way is wrong... For both genders.

But, I also think there is another side to this coin and that a lot of people are stuck in a sort of teenage rebellious kind of state where they are bitter and are stuck rebelling against this religion in their minds. So, most people around here are either in the religion or in an extreme, damaged inside, party kind of lifestyle... for example, meth usage is high around here.

My kind of people are neither... Chill. Drinking is only a fun social event and used somewhat in moderation... Call it the Taoist or Buddhist Middle Path...