Growing up and Flowers for Algernon

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Hello,
I swear I'm keeping this one short so stick around. today I finished the book by Daniel Keyes called "Flowers for Algernon", and honestly, it was the first book that has moved me in a long time. I could easily say that the book is about a guy who is dumb, who acquires knowledge and then loses it, but I think it is laced with so many messages for life. However, what really hit me the hardest was how everyone changed towards the main character as he acquired knowledge. He went from having bad friends because he was mentally ill, to having no friends but being incredibly intelligent. Everyone complained that he had changed, and that he no longer had the same light that he used to have. He was called arrogant and unappreciative by the people who used to look at him with such good intentions.

It just makes me think back at how many things I've tried, and how much knowledge I've gained JUST so I could get girls to give me things without having to sacrifice anything of my own. It was a selfish acquisition of tools and techniques all geared towards protecting me. Naturally none of them worked because no matter what mask I wore, I was always the same scared guy underneath. though I've gained a lot of knowledge about myself and other social dynamics, it has left me alone and somewhat confused. I used to love drawing comics and telling stories, but you know what? Girls saw them and didn't like them much. It wasn't achieving a goal, so I stopped. I changed degrees in college to something I know and care nothing about. Honestly, I started this whole no PMO thing in hopes that it would improve my chances with women, but things changed...All that self sufficiency BS that I use to preach and abide by is just that. Seeing my porn watching friends get girlfriends really makes me jealous. I say I'm happy for them but... I know I can't hate them for it for making the necessary sacrifices that I'm too great to make, but I do. I should be more honest with myself. I need someone to give a damn about me. I want to be with someone. BADLY now. I curse this journey for reminding me of just how scared I really am, but at the same time, I think it's shown me the light that it's time I grew up.

I hate ranting...

Comments

Seeing the light

I've said it before and I'll say it again...an honest guy who isn't putting up a facade is infinitely more interesting than a phony looking to pick up chicks. Even if said honest guy is shy, quiet, and terrified of me.

Try drawing some new comics and see if that makes you feel like your "real" self again. (By the way, my parents live in San Diego and say Comic-Con has a growing number of female attendees...)

I went to the Comic-Con in

I went to the Comic-Con in San Diego a few years back, my god their were a ton of girls there. It seems to not just be for men anymore. I know Pinup, you don't like to hear about the objectification of women, nor do I, but the women at Comic-con looked amazing. A lot of them had cool costumes on.
Falcon if you get the chance you should go, you would probably have a great time.

Also, that is a great book. In a way it represents a lot of things to different people. Similar to the movie Limitless. The difference being he could become more charming and read people as well.

Thanks everyone

It means a lot to me to read your helpful responses especially as I come down with this fever from out of nowhere.

Marnia, at this point, I totally see girls lining them self up for me like moving targets. I just need to push through this feeling of stage freight like you said. My last relationship must've ended really bad, or far worse than I want to recall.

Prodigal, I'm definitely gonna see if limitless is on Netflix because Flowers for Algernon the movie is not. I want to go to a con with my friend now that I don't have to worry about mood swings and the like.

Pinup, thanks for your advice too because it rings true in my experience. I've always felt like I did nothing to deserve my past relationships, but be my old self. I just lost sight of it somewhere on this long road of self improvement. For me it's always been a battle between self acceptance, and the tough love of self improvement. Both are on a spectrum that can lead to despair in extremes. It's kind of humbling really, but my friend who just got a girlfriend is a sweaty comic book nerd type, and he invited me to go to a con this year. He happened to ask when I just started the withdrawal period lol. He's probably my best friend and he's such an honest guy in terms of who he is, but it's crazy because he said he became that way when he met me. The old me... He even thanked me for it.

That is a good friend then,

That is a good friend then, one who can thank you for making THEM a better person. By the way, I really do recommend everyone on this board watch Limitless. I was privy to the screenplay before it came out, I live in LA and know a few people in the movie business, but once I read it and saw the movie, it kind of made me more motivated to stop any M/O(I don't look at porn but suffered the same effects.) I would read men's accounts on here of being cured and it's benefits and it was like Holy S###, I could see a connection. So while curing oneself of p/m/o might not turn you into superman, it sounds like what benefits you do get out of it are pretty awesome.

Captain,

If you want to date, get some tips from Rockhardington. I think he has been out with half the women in his university already this semester. Wink

Oh god

Maybe I will. I was thinking about buying some Old Spice deodorant and wearing it alongside Axe body spray :P I don't really think I can do the typical dating thing yet where i take girls out to eat and stuff. I need money for that, and right now it's really tight almost nonexistent. I do want to talk to them though, so I'm building my courage as we speak!

What about

suggesting a walk in a park or studying together? Money needn't be an issue. Chances are they would also like to do some kissing (also free).;-)

Yes this sounds great

I would enjoy kissing. Wait... How does one kiss... I forgot how to kiss... God. Well at least it can be fun learning again. Marnia I have to thank you and Gary again for helping me grow through all this. There were so many times I felt trapped under the God that was for me, Orgasm. I can finally think about what I really want, and I actually want to get to know females. I don't think I could've come this far with just quitting porn alone. For the first time in a while I feel optimistic about life and women. There's hope now and room to grow. I knew I wouldn't regret joining this community. When I get successful, I'm totally gonna donate to you guys because what you've cultivated here is invaluable to me.

I can't believe I forgot how to kiss... 4 years of porn will do that I suppose. lol

Kissing is really not that

Kissing is really not that complicated. First you find a good lasso, you toss the lasso over the girl and do a running jump flip over her. After that, do your best robot or funky chicken dance. That my good friend is kissing. :)

Its simple: your lips meets her lips and just do what she does.

You know

As I was reading this, I was starting to freak out just trying to imagine everything you were saying! Actually made me laugh out loud. I think I'm gonna watch some romance dramas and learn from the masters.(I'm so smart huh?)

I was hoping it would make

I was hoping it would make you laugh. Every girlfriend I've ever had (and a bunch of other girls I've just made out with) have always told me I was a really good kisser toot toot(thats me tooting my horn.) The joke on them is that I just kiss how they do. Everybody kisses a little differently so I just kind of go at there pace and they always seem to really like it.

As I'm writing this it just occurred to me that maybe THEY think they are going at MY pace, in which case I'm the foolish one. Either way, from having a lot of female roommates over the years (14 in fact) and from dating a lot I've learned just how important kissing is to a woman, it's very important. Don't stress about it just relax and enjoy it.

I've also

Been told I'm a great kisser, but I've always taken the lead. I remember I use to be very passionate when it came to kissing, and I guess it really effects the girl I'm kissing. Damn that reminds me one time when I made out with my last really serious girlfriend, and I literally saw red for like 5 minutes after the fact. I told her about it and she just laughed at me because she knows she had a lot to do with it. Remember when kissing was the main goal?

nice

Sounds like my lifestory lol. I'll have to read this book. For years I've been trying to figure out writing a screen play with a similar idea. Maybe this will have some inspiration.

Knowledge can be a dangerous thing. When I acquired them at a young age, I threw away my youth for it's pursuit. I'm older and wiser now and realize I was masking myself from my pain in order to achieve something which I thought was better. We are really slaves to what society perceives as truth. We grow up with this as our parents taught us (as their parents taught them) and believe this is reality. When we acquire knowledge we realize it doesn't really synch with everyone else and it makes us feel isolated. You were blessed with gifts but wanted to be part of something or someone so you wouldn't feel alone. That is why all the greatest composers, directors, and philosophers were miserable at heart (Friedrich Nietzsche prefered talkin to horses lol). There's nothing wrong with wanting women to respect you for who you are. Unfortunately they would rather be with the jock who wants to get in their pants with his alpha tendences instead of someone who is genuinue and has good intentions. And trust me I know what you're saying about women going for porn buddies. I was surrounded by drug dealers who attracted women that I was interested in but realized in the end these women had issues that they needed to solve and were compensating. It seems like you're young but you'll come around eventually that you are on the right path and have gifts that can benefit others. Continue on with your comics! You could be the next Stan Lee :)

Maybe

the women who can appreciate more than alpha qualities are not the alpha females. Just saying... Are you willing to consider a mate based on something other than looks?

sdfs

[quote=Marnia]the women who can appreciate more than alpha qualities are not the alpha females. Just saying... Are you willing to consider a mate based on something other than looks?[/quote]

I think you're directing this at me Marnia (if not sorry!) but definitely. The first and only girl I fell for I looked passed that. I mean she wasn't ugly by any means but many people thought she was (still not sure why). I didn't sense an initial attraction to her but when I got to know her she was the most beautiful woman I had ever spoken with. Like her inner beauty made her totally hot lol. I think my problem is I'm so use to the bar scene my perception is pretty off. I'm trying to explore other territories soon which I'm sure will give be better results in meeting a lovely woman.

It was kinda

directed at everyone here. I hear that women are always going for the alpha guys, and overlooking quality guys.

But sometimes guys think their quality choices are necessarily all about a female's looks (in comparison to pornstresses). I'm glad you have broader vision. Smile

It's confusing really

After quitting porn, it's common to find more women attractive and not just the ones who have great proportions. So then what makes them alpha? I think strength of character is what makes someone alpha anything. I could be a fat clown who has no sense of humor, but as long as I'm completely proud and secure in myself, I think I'd be attractive.

This is probably the nicest thing

Seriously I read that twice, and everything you said means a lot to me. I'm also glad you can relate to this situation. it seems like no matter what your story is, there is someone here who can relate. I think there are a lot of dynamics that cause women to go after guys who an idealist would consider "Wrong", but this is no longer my problem. Why try to solve something I have no power over right? However, I do think you are right about girls who are just compensating with the wrong guy. I have two sisters: One of them stayed with an asshole for years, while the other one married someone who I am so proud to call my brother in law. He's really like the big bro I've always wanted, but it's funny that my OLDER sister is the one who chose the right guy. My younger one however is starting to make the right moves to get away from that guy now, so I guess she's finally taking responsibility. At 21 years old, I feel like I've gathered a great amount of self knowledge, and my new goal is to be this guy who I am now.

This path has been full of forks and hurdles, but you know, it's a blessed path that I wouldn't change if I could.

ewr

[quote=CaptainFalcon]Seriously I read that twice, and everything you said means a lot to me. I'm also glad you can relate to this situation. it seems like no matter what your story is, there is someone here who can relate. I think there are a lot of dynamics that cause women to go after guys who an idealist would consider "Wrong", but this is no longer my problem. Why try to solve something I have no power over right? However, I do think you are right about girls who are just compensating with the wrong guy. I have two sisters: One of them stayed with an asshole for years, while the other one married someone who I am so proud to call my brother in law. He's really like the big bro I've always wanted, but it's funny that my OLDER sister is the one who chose the right guy. My younger one however is starting to make the right moves to get away from that guy now, so I guess she's finally taking responsibility. At 21 years old, I feel like I've gathered a great amount of self knowledge, and my new goal is to be this guy who I am now.

This path has been full of forks and hurdles, but you know, it's a blessed path that I wouldn't change if I could.[/quote]

Glad I can help in any way! The ones who walk the harder paths have the better story to tell :)

it's like a movie...

I imagine studying with a guy, and suddenly he looks me in the eye for a little moment, than shies away with his look, staring on the ground saying: "hum, you know what... I do not know how kissing works... seems I knew someday in the past but I just can't remember... do you know somebody nice who could teach me?"

I guess I would stare at him in disbelief
and then say: "Maybe i could..."

(god is this romantic!!) Smile great movie!

You don't risk so much, I think, because if she says,"no I don't", it just means, "I don't know somebody". so you just say, "pity, but if ever you have an idea, tell me", and you both go on with studying.

err.. how geek-like do you look?

Btw: This is always a good trick. To ask somebody if he knows somebody who can help you. Gives them freedom to choose, and you don't feel rejected if they say no.
When I was younger we used to tramp around to concerts or just to cities with almost no money. And usually you start to talk to somebody, and after a while we asked them if they didn't know a sleeping place for us. Usually they said, oh you can sleep in my place.

the trick with asking somebody...

...if he knows somebody who can help you...

Why do I get more often a positive answer when I ask somebody if he knows somebody who can help me
instead of asking
sombody to help me...

I've been pondering on this and I think I know now, why it works: You give people a chance to be generous by their own choice.

(and btw. we never had any hidden agenda when asking for a sleeping place - we were two girls traveling somtimes in Germany and we never had any bad experiences, just got to know a lot of very nice people who really wanted to help us out - I wouldn't recommend that to girls now in these screwed-up-Internet-Porn-Days...)