circumcision -- why do people still do it?

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Submitted by cadethefaun on
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OMG my penis!(a joke I have seen going on around here) So I have been thinking about this lately... And I just wanted to sort of vent a little. So my parents made me go through this archaic, outdated, barbaric ritual before I was even old enough to talk or even make my own choice. A part of my body mutilated by some butcher of a doctor who thinks it's okay to do such a thing to someone so young and my foreskin was removed. And the only possible think I can think of that circumcision does is make sure that the most sensitive parts of my penis are constantly stimulated by clothing, making me slightly aroused almost all the time, and making it harder to practice celibacy/seminal retention and recovery from sexual addiction. I guarantee if they waited until I was reasonably old enough to decide for myself I would have reacted like the characters in Robin Hood: Men in Tights. "I've changed me mind".
"I forgot, I already got one.", etc.
Funny thing is there are laws against female genital mutilation but not male genital mutilation. And I just found a web page detailing how being circumcised actually makes sex less pleasurable for both the male and female, mainly because, without the softer covering it makes it into more of a rough and friction type of experience(somewhat on the painful side compared to the natural man) which also inhibits the feel good chemicals because it makes it into more of an adrenaline experience than normal due to roughness.

I share your views

But silly customs die hard sometimes. I couldn't even persuade my sister to leave my nephew intact. "He won't want to look different from the other guys in his gym class." Good thing the other guys' mom weren't cutting their sons' ears off or something. *rolls eyes*

The other guys in his gym

The other guys in his gym class won't be paying that close of attention. They are all nervous about showering in front of people. Besides, I knew long before gym class that some of my friends weren't cut, or rather looked different. Now that I think about it, it's kinda weird... before I was cultured into this homophobic society I remember as kids me and my friends would pee outside together and saw each other's penises and there was nothing weird or sexual about it, and we weren't that ashamed about it.
And given the importance of this organ, I think I would have almost preferred having an ear cut off....
Oh well, at least we haven't gone as far as neutering young men like we do dogs, cats and farm animals....

I get sick to my stomach

I get sick to my stomach thinking about circumcision, but I do know of one thing in its favor.

A huge portion of boys/men who arent circumcized cant retract their foreskin, or when they eventually do it is a nightmare come true. They cant clean themselves properly, and erections are painful. People even argue that they cant have sex properly.

Even worse are the injuries that can happen. Just among people I know, 1 guy was on an airplane and accidentally retracted his foreskin for the first time and then got it stuck while pee'ing. He had to be circumcized immediately on the plane because blood was being cut off to his penis. I also know a couple of guys who were getting their first HJs and their partners didnt realize penises are sensitive....and not all identical. The guys were in pain for weeks.

Ive also heard of horror stories where sex turns into a bloody nightmare because foreskin....rips. :O

Very interestingly, the only cure for unretractable foreskin other than circumcision, is excessive masturbation (or sex I suppose).

Foreskin isnt retractable right from birth. Some boys' become retractable while they are kids, but the majority are helped along by starting to masturbate. Lots of boys initially think masturbation has damaged them when all of a sudden their skin comes loose.

Ussually not being able to retract is a combination of the way you were born, with masturbating rarely, or in unconventional ways. If you were born that way, it discourages masturbating normally, so its a viscious cycle.

If I sound like an encyclopedia, its because I have this problem. A year or so ago I was quite bothered by it, but erections arent too painful, and apparently sex is fine with a condom (if not all the time). Im not eager to try to fap my skin off, and I also dont want to be circumsized. Even if the surgery itself didnt bother me I think it would be terribly embarrasing to go to my doctor and tell him I didnt masturbate hard enough and so I need part of my penis sliced off.

Double post sorry

When I was worried about this, I did alot of reserch about it and I found that the whole thing is quite controversial. I didnt even know I had a problem at first, and I almost thought some of the information might have been trolling/joking.

Circumsicion-mongers call the problem Phimosis, and consider it a defect than needs surgery to fix.
Masturbation-mongers blame the problem on religious/social dogma discouraging boys from masturbating enough.
And then theres articles by people who have phimosis who are like yeah its not that big of a deal.

I had a partial circ

due to phimosis, neither I nor the Urologist wanted to take the route of full circ, for the reasons already mentioned above. Had it not been for phomosis, i would not have had it done. I think that's very different to ritualistic circumcision, which to put it crudely is nothing more than mutilation of a childs genital and a blood offering to god. A person may develop severe tonsilitus in adult life, but that doen't mean we should remove tonsils at birth. If you only have mild phimosis i believe you can have an op that slices the skin internally in the vertical direction allowing it to stretch before heeling and others have used stretching techniques. But as i said, problems need to be fixed when they occur, not in some barbaric conveyor like manner.

The EU is big on human rights, its sad that in our country the criminals have more rights than the children. If a child wishes to have it done for religious reasons they should be made to wait until they can make that decision themselves. Surely if it is against the law to hit your child, how can it be legal to mutilate them beyond repair? The same applies to fasting, a parent should be allowed to fast, but to starve their child for the day (Which medical research has shown time and time again is not healthy) is utterly absurd.

Well I have read a few pages

Well I have read a few pages on this, wondering if their actually was originally a reason for it. Seems it was used to discourage sex, partly because the body part is mutilated and partly due to the extra pain it causes. Funny I never thought sex was painful, but maybe I am used to it in a way because I never experienced non-circumcision. And medical circumcision was instituted to prevent masturbation, says one source I read.
Female genital mutilation is practiced in some areas of the middle east, it is worse. The clitoris is removed. Some bleed to death, some get very sick. If that happened to men, I guarantee it would not be practiced on infants.
I love the pages I read on pro-circumcision of males. "But it looks so neat and clean and pretty, wouldn't you want your child to look like this?", "It prevents some STDs." By the way the STD claim sounds like one of those statistics where they only took down the statistics, like so many people circumcised, so many people get syphillis or HIV and didn't weigh in any other factors. In fact over a hundred men are circumcised for every one that actually gets "saved" from an infection in the statistics. Animals are born and live and die uncircumcised, and we never hear about them having problems with it.

Can anyone comment on

Can anyone comment on condoms and circumcision? It seems like a condom might limit the ability for an uncircumcised penis to work as designed.

Circumcision like many things we do might lead to better survival rates. What does the historical literature show? Anti-circumcision literature seems a little light on that.

Part of the problem is most men never know both experiences. That makes it harder to know on a physical level what makes more sense.

Statistics can always be played with

The circumcision/STDs argument is nonsense as far as i'm concerned, if any one circumcised wish to prove its not by having sex with someone with HIV be my guest. On another note, a recent study in Australia showed that on average circumcised men had smaller dicks (used that instead of penis as i don't know the correct term for the plural Smile )

Visage, they're smaller bc

Visage, they're smaller bc 30 to 50% of the total skin is removed. The remaining skin has to really stretch which leads to less girth or room for growth. This was covered in the "anti-circ" literature I read, too.

I'm uncut & have always had

I'm uncut & have always had problems with condoms. They seem to be designed for circumcised guys. I love the feeling of the skin rolling back & forth over my glans- when using a condom I have to roll the skin back really tight, & the condom then holds that skin in place. It decreases the sensation a lot.

I'm happy my parents chose not to get me circ'd. Practically no guys under 30 in Australia are circ'd, & I won't be circumcising if I have a boy. In Japan there is a practice where growing up boys retract their foreskins, & try to keep it there. Eventually the skin stays back naturally (but can be rolled forward). Seems like the best of both worlds- all the "benefits" of a circumcision (I use the term benefits loosely) without hacking off any of the penis.

Also, I always really liked this sites collection of extracts from medical journals from hundreds of years ago to today regarding the pleasures of having a foreskin:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Pleasure.html

It kind of reads as anti-circ propaganda, but I can relate to a lot of the stories. When I don't masturbate, my penis is so, so sensitive, & I absolutely love having slow, sloppy, wet intimate sex- & the entire time I'm riding the wave of pleasure that comes just before orgasm is reached. It says uncut guys "can't tell when their orgasms begin & end", which pretty much explains the sensation. I reckon cut guys can have this too, I just tend to think it's achieved more easily with an uncut penis.

Sounds like something closer

Sounds like something closer to a "valley" orgasm. Maybe the lack of foreskin makes the experience feel too intense to really relax and let the energy build instead of just plain letting it go through ejaculation. Unless someone knows what they're aiming for and goes for the valley O effect...

About the aesthetic

About the aesthetic arguments, I think it's all about what you are accustomed to. I'm in the US and nearly everyone here is circumcised.

But I agree with you on the human rights aspect of it, although I haven't looked at the medical arguments that much.

I would imagine

It will be worse with a circumcised guy, the foreskin is designed to seal the entry to prevent lubrication leaving, but if circ is a turnon, then naturally it will have an impact on a woman's natural lubrication too.

Is nearly everybody in the

Is nearly everybody in the USA really cut?

I live in canada and I have no idea about statistics here, but I got the impression (from gym class as a kid i guess =P) that it was roughly half and half, if not more uncut.

I know the USA has alot of people of jewish religion and they have religions reasons for it, but it surely cant make up that huge of a portion of the USA O.o

Of course maybe canada is just as cut and I just happened to shower with more uncut than statistics imply.

It's highest among the white

It's highest among the white population, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision. It slowed once the doctors changed their tune. There being more pleasure uncircumcised might not be accurate. It could reflect thinking that pleasure is in the penis and not the brain. It's also said to be more pleasurable for women. While the reasons for not circumcising could be good, the ultimate outcome could actually be a bad thing. Connect the dots between the information here, more pleasure, and say that documentary on the century of the self. You end up with a sequence that could have led doctors to change their mind to the pressure of whatever powers may be.

As for Jewish circumcision, there are roughly 13+ million Jews worldwide. According to http://www.circumstitions.com/Jewish.html, there are about 500 million circumcised Muslims worldwide and more than 100 million US person circumcised of which only about 5 million could be Jewish. For whatever reasons, Jews have some notoriety around ritual-based circumcision.

Not my boys

We did not have our two boys circumcised and we're very happy about it. Feels great to break the chain of circumcision at this end of the family tree. They never got any infections, like they try to scare you about, or did they have issues with being un-circumcised. Its getting much more normal these days.

Ever heard the joke about the doctor who kept all the foreskin he removed. Finally after he thought had enough he brought it to a leather worker and asked him to make a suitcase. A few weeks later the suitcase was ready but when the doctor saw it he said, "whats this, its only a small hand bag". The leather worker said, "If you want a suitcase just rub it between your hands"

They are 18 and 20 now.

They are 18 and 20 now. Never mattered to them that I was circumcised and they werent. From what I recall, they were very appreciative that I didnt do that to them. They have no stigma around it. To them is just completely natural being un-circumcised. Why did we break the pattern? The whole idea seemed absolutely barbaric and we could see no good reason to do it. I've never been one to do something just because someone before me did it.

I remember holding my first son when he was born, actually held him as he came out. He nursed then was handed back to me. There was still some small question in the back of my mind about circumcision and then someone said "are you going to circumcise him". I looked down on his beautiful naked body in my arms and in that instant simply said "no", but inside I said "NO FUCKING WAY IS ANYONE CUTTING MY SON'S BODY", and that was the end of that.

My son was not circumsized.

He's 22. No way would his mom allow that. The OBGYN was a really great guy, but he was clearly disappointed, when we said no.
Medicine's collective ego often trumps common sense with such notable mistakes as - 1) "appendix has no function" 2) "tonsils have no function" 3) "babies should be isolated after birth" 4) "formula is better than mother's milk" 5) "porn use can't cause ED"

Very true

[quote=gary]He's 22. No way would his mom allow that. The OBGYN was a really great guy, but he was clearly disappointed, when we said no.
Medicine's collective ego often trumps common sense with such notable mistakes as - 1) "appendix has no function" 2) "tonsils have no function" 3) "babies should be isolated after birth" 4) "formula is better than mother's milk" 5) "porn use can't cause ED"[/quote]

All fantastic points Gary. I sometimes wonder how differently I might have turned out had my mother's diet been better, I not being fed formula and born (Via caesarian) 3 months early...

Mainly

because "god" told them to. From what I hear, people who are uncircumcised have twice the pleasure when they have sex! and of course religion hates things that make us feel good lol, the sad thing is, once your circumcised, its pretty much to late! The american health org says that we circumcise because it will prevent "infection" which is a bunch of horse shit, because humans were uncircumcised way before Christ and they all were fine!! So, whenever you have kids, make it your decision on what you wanna do with them!

to be fair

There is some evidence that in ancient cultures that lacked the level of hygeine and medical advances we have today, that circumcision had significant health benefits in ensuring cleanliness and preventing infection. So while the Bible describes circumcision as being a mark of a covenant agreement between God and Israel, God may have also had their physical welfare in mind.

And yes obviously most other humans were not circumsized during this time, but I think it would be presumptuous to say "they were all fine." I do not think there are any studies comparing levels of infection between circumsized and uncircumsized Palestinians in the first & second centuries BC.

Incidentally, the apostle Paul has some harsh words for early Christians who went around preaching that they were only Christians if they kept observing Israelite traditions such as circumcision (Paul asserted that God's grace was sufficient, not the traditions). Paul suggested that these guys go the whole way and emasculate themselves for their desire to enslave people back to a life of rules & regulations.

Finally, saying that religion hates things that make us feel good is about as accurate as me saying my trainer hates things that make me feel good. Eating 4 donuts makes me feel good now, but my trainer scolds me because he knows that ultimately it gets in my way of higher fulfillment.

Actually Jesus was against

Actually Jesus was against circumcision, there are a few references in the bible mostly read between the lines stuff and in the gospel of thomas someone asks if circumcision is useful and he says if it was babies would be born that way.
Now, as for the prevention of infection thing: In theory, because the part of the foreskin that is removed is a mucous membrane, and is relatively moist or wet, this mucous membrane could convey disease into the body. However, I think this is like saying that if women have "dry" sex before they are warmed up and wet, they will have less chance of contracting disease.

I'm was circumsized at

I'm was circumsized at birth. I hate it.

because of this I have lost so much sensitivity in my penis. ive regained some sensitivity the last couple of days from abstaining from masturbation - but even so i just know that im losing out on the deal when it comes to feeling everything God intended me to feel when having sex. sad.

So I've decided to go the

So I've decided to go the route of foreskin restoral.... No, I'm not paying for a $5000 sketchy surgery....

There is a method where you stretch the skin for a few minutes per day, which stimulates growth. It takes a long time, but I'm already some difference...
You can find the details by researching them on the internet....

I guess the only thing you can't get back is the frenulum

realize this topic is kinda

realize this topic is kinda dead =P

I was not circ'd as a child, only had one instance of minor infection that i can remember. the issue i have now is the difficulty retracting foreskin. Have never had unprotected sex and had one experience with my gf where it retracted 'too much' and tore somewhere and i was bleeding. that certainly scared me yet i let it heal up and didn't go to a doctor.

it still is too tight to retract while erect, while not erect it can retract altho somewhat tight.

I've read on one specialized forum about this that recommends stretching after a bath for a few months which resolves it.

I've finally talked with my family doctor about it who has referred me to a urologist for options. The family doctor did ask "do you want a circumcision?" i was like noooooooo, i'm looking for options.

the only other 'side effect' of retaining foreskin is the studies that say those with foreskin are lik 100 times more sensitive than those without. that kinda makes me wonder if it's contributing to me Premature Ejaculation issues. Then again, without a proper reboot, it could still be PMO. I have noticed improvements, albeit small with the small runs i've been able to make on the no PMO front.

this topic is interesting to

this topic is interesting to me. I came here to ask whether there would be a difference in performing karezza and it's efficacy if the male is circumcised. My guess is it's just not the same.

The foreskin holds up to 75% of the pleasure neurons on the penis and also absorb and exchange chemicals during the sex act (and I would say even energetics or pheromones outside of the bedroom). Taking this into account if karezza was a natural act, karezza with circumcision defeats the purpose.

I was circumcised for medical

I was circumcised for medical reasons (foreskin was too tight)

Karezza works just as perfectly for me as for anyone else. In fact, I'd say it works a lot better and a lot more quickly - though I don't think that has anything to with my circumcision.

You guys are paranoid. Just because you lack that tiny flab of skin doesn't mean you're gonna enjoy sex less. Karezza is all about enjoying sex with your whole body, not with your dick, which, however big and impressive it may be, is only a teeny tiny part of you.

Believe me, nerve endings aren't the be all and end all of pleasure. It's pure energy, and that part of you won't have been harmed by circumcision. It's not as if they cut your frickin dick off!