♥Marital Harmony in a Karezza Based Relationship

Submitted by bodie4407 on
Printer-friendly version

So my wife and I have begun our journey in discovering Karezza. She has several reservations about Karezza but they essentially boil down to: 1) What happens when she just doesn't feel like Karezza intercourse and I do; 2) She's OK with Karezza as long as she can still have her orgasms (my, so far, unvoiced concern is if she is sexually sated and I'm not - we are not going to be on the same "schedule" for intercourse based on her diminished sex drive); 3) Sometimes she's too tired or too stressed out to even hug - so then what? We have a twenty-six year marriage where we are "best friends" but would like to have better "chemistry" and maybe rediscover some of the passion (both sexually and emotionally) we once had for each other.

On some level she feels she is doing Karezza for me (not us) and I try to tell her (without judgment) that the Karezza benefits to her and to BOTH of US are substantial. She really does enjoy the relaxed nature of our prolonged, non-goal oriented intercourse and when she wants to orgasm when she feels we are at the end, it is really effortless (and swift) for her after our Karezza session (where before she had a lot of anxiety about her ability to orgasm during conventional sex, whether orally, manually or otherwise). I am happy to accommodate her needs for orgasm as long as it does not jeopardize my ability to NOT ejaculate. I tell her Karezza offers benefits, not just in the physical and emotional intimacy during intercourse (which is HUGE), but also in how we can relate to each other outside of the bedroom as well. The pair-bonding behaviors, like hugging, tongue kissing, massages, skin to skin contact, hand holding, foot and head rubs, spooning, etc... have a positive effect on how we can relate to each other on an on-going basis. She's says I am too much of an idealist (Utopianist) and thinks I am overselling this whole concept because of my "need for sex."

So, since I have very little actual experience in this area, I want to ask the forum:

How have the long-term, continuous Karezza-based bonding behaviors and intercourse impacted your ability as a couple to relate to each other day-in-day-out, argue (fight), resolve serious issues which you face as a couple and get you through the "taking out the garbage, doing the dishes and cleaning the toilet" part of a marriage? :?

Am I unrealistic in my premise that many (but not all) of the bumps in the road of a marriage can be smoothed out by Karezza? That with Karezza a sort of LovingKindness is more present and we can see each other in a whole different light than we have in the past when we were enjoying conventional sex? If I'm way out there and don't have my feet firmly planted on the ground - someone please kick me and wake me up out of my "dream." I appreciate the experienced views of the forum participants.

Hmmm...

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your courage in trying something so unfamiliar. As you know, we're persuaded that our harmony is much greater using karezza. But I'm equally persuaded that it would not be...if I were still going for it. :( Even though the effects of orgasm are so subtle, and intermittent, that I didn't recognize them for decades, they're very real. And they do not bring out the best in me.

That said, you may just have to wait a bit...and work off your karma by behaving in a saintly manner. [bigsmile] It's very hard for anyone to recognize they are out of balance, especially when the hangover is subtle. It really *seems* like the other person, or life, is the cause of any disharmony. That's just the magic of projection.

My suggestion is to see if she'll just do three weeks as an experiment. Ask for it as a birthday present or something. Maybe she'll notice for herself...especially when she goes back to conventional sex. Wink

I think you're right that you two will be somewhat out of sync while she's on the orgasm track and you're not, but I can't think of a good way to persuade her to try something she thinks is silly. Would it do any good to read some of this to her? http://www.reuniting.info/node/7620

I've enabled you to blog. Let us know how it goes.

Arguing

I know that you believe that Karezza creates greater harmony but you and your husband must have disagreements or arguments from time to time, right? All couples have conflict so my question is how well are you able to weather these storms and does Karezza have a mitigating effect?

I am being patient with my wife. She really does enjoy the prolonged intimate coupling of Karezza intercourse but has not been able to "rethink" the issue of having an orgasm. She is reading the book (Cupid's Poisoned Arrow "CPA") and she is curious about NOT having an orgasm. In 26 years she has experienced that situation before but only by "accident," or because she was too tense or too "into it" or not focused enough to be able to climax. She has never intentionally turned down an orgasm and she does not feel that she gets a "hangover" from having one. I believe she is just not seeing it - as I can tell when I am having dopamine fluctuations from an "accidental" ejaculation over two weeks ago and masturbation a week ago to relieve a painful buildup of sexual pressure (my first such MO in four months). Our last two Karezza experiences have both been extremely positive and satisfying (even if she did end with an orgasm). We are trying to learn this on the fly and I am really committed to trying to keep my dopamine in check by not ejaculating.

I am a recovering sex addict and she has some residual emotional issues she is dealing with related to my acting out sexually. We are both trying to heal and she needs me to be patient, understanding and unrushed throughout this process. I went through a 90 day abstinence period to re-boot before we had any sexual activity (we did do some pair-bonding stuff like hugs and massages during the abstinence period).

In reading some of the other literature, it appears that it is not an uncommon problem for women to still want an orgasm even if their partner has decided to forego his. Many women are unwilling to give up their orgasm and, therefore, I defer to the "Goddess" within her. I have discussed this with her and she is considering it and maybe she will try this without the orgasm for three weeks to see if it works for her. We are early on in our experimentation with Karezza and have been taking things slowly and "feeling our way in the dark." CPA is helpful but each couple needs to find their own way through the various challenges within the relationship.

My real question, though, is how Karezza impacts the day-to-day stuff that comes up and the conflicts that will inevitably arise.

Thanks for you valuable insights.

You're certainly right

that each couple has to find their own way.

I think both of us would say that our most unpleasant arguments have most all occurred when one or both of us were post-O. It's kind of uncanny...even to us.

Generally we handle disagreements with humor or teasing. The same kinds of issues that would erupt when we're post-O just don't erupt during karezza periods. We've "tested" enough to know this is true for us.

The hangover is real for me

But I was *sure* it wouldn't be!

My partner and I started down this path about 18 months ago. (We're just toddlers!) We didn't do the exchanges - karezza sex - then regular sex. We just went to trying Karezza. It took us quite awhile before we really found our 'sweet spot' with Karezza.

My partner is younger, and still has unintended orgasms more easily than he'd like. He can tell the difference in the after effects of an accidental orgasm vs one he 'goes for', so he doesn't go for them at all anymore, and neither do I. (He says they make him feel "Crabby") All told, I've had 2 accidental (his having one triggered mine) ones in the last 12 months. The last being 225 days ago.

The level of harmony between us is amazing now. We were good before, but now I experience a peaceful bliss just snuggling with him. We don't fight at all anymore, and even honest disagreements are few and far between, and we always end up laughing, instead of fighting. The one trigger I still have for being irritable is going too long without food, but now we both recognize that trigger, and don't allow it to cause a fight, instead it just makes us go get something to eat, STAT! (I get hypoglycemic.)

Recently, I had someone comment about how happy we seemed all the time, now. Always smiling and laughing together. And it's true. I can't remember the last time we had an argument.

The thing I would recommend doing is keeping a daily mood journal. It can help you pinpoint what might be triggering something, and to help give you a clear picture of how well this works.

Quizure

No Orgasm

Today we both tried no orgasm. She felt "electrified" and while she felt like she wanted an orgasm, she said she had a "wave" orgasm - not the big crashing wave - just a gentle melty, tingly one. So we will keep you posted. Thanx for the input. Here's to KAREZZA HARMONY...

Post-Karezza Observations

Since we had Karezza intercourse w/out the "O" we seem to be in a better place with each other. Still pretty new to us though. Plus we have both had "accidental" orgasms in the past two weeks so we are still in the dopamine fluctuation stage. My wife doesn't seem to be any worse off for having foregone her orgasm. I feel great too! More energy, more snuggling, more kissing. How can that be a bad thing?? This is definitely a work in progress. I appreciate the feedback.

Female Sexual Frustration

We tried Karezza yesterday again and after 45 minutes or so of intercourse, my wife said she was feeling sexually "frustrated" and asked for an orgasm. I accommodated her needs but was wondering what I might be doing wrong that is getting her so overheated. I felt fine and did not feel like I needed to ejaculate so I figure I am getting her too hot somehow and that is leading to her feeling of frustration. This is probably a dumb question but is it OK to stroke her ass, rub and massage her back, play with her breasts and nipples and tongue kiss while doing Karezza intercourse? - I figured these were "warm" not "hot" actions during lovemaking but she seems to gotten too close to the Edge. Is it possible her "frustration" comes from her pre-conceived concept of regular orgasm-ending coupling rather than "warm love?" :? Somehow, I am doing things that are too intense for her and I'm not sure how I can tone things down from "hot" to "warm." I guess I do not understand female sexuality enough. Any suggestions?

First of all,

it would be amazing if she suddenly put the brakes on completely, given that she still has doubts about the efficacy of karezza. Wink

You're obviously a good lover, with good intuition. Trust it. Why not experiment with less intense sex-play and see what happens?

Maybe allow the encounters to settle down and then pick back up...like breathing...so that when you end during a lull it doesn't seem unsatisfying. Let your erections go up and down, too. It's very pleasurable to feel an erection grow inside the vagina. Wink

Ever heard of Reich? There's a little-known passage from his famous book on orgasm quoted at the end of this article. http://www.reuniting.info/will-orgasms-keep-you-in-love Even HE acknowledged that lovemaking can be satisfying without orgasm. He just probably didn't understand the costs of always exhausting sexual energy because he was so convinced of its benefits.

Confused and Confounded

Marnia, you have been very helpful but I'm not getting this or I'm making it harder (no pun intended) than it should be. We tried again today (this morning) and while things started out well, I felt rushed, somewhat anxious, and had trouble focusing on the moment and lost my erection. We continued Karezza intercourse for half and hour or more but I really had trouble re-focusing, maintaining my erection (I was soft much more than I was hard), relaxing and staying "present". [schock] My mind was wondering all over the place and my erection was very elusive as a result. I really WANTED this (probably too much) because we are going to be separated for more than a week or so due to travel and busy schedules and I just could not clear my mind of all the negative chatter and enjoy the sexual connection time with my wife. Afterward, she asked for an orgasm, which I accommodated and then we spent about 20-30 minutes just lying next to each other skin-to-skin. I was able to stay in the moment during that time before I had to get up, get a shower and get dressed for work.
I also find that not having a orgasm keeps me "primed" for sex and the thought of no Karezza for 7-10 days is causing me more than a little stress. HELP! Am I losing it or just so green and inexperienced I am putting too much pressure on myself? I really want this to work but I think I'm making a mess of it.

So my new question is: Does a 7-10 day imposed abstinence from Karezza cause any issues for you and do you feel that it is tougher to "connect" or "bond" after such a long lay-off?
Any suggestions on how to address some of my issues?

BTW, we are going to have a 3 week vacation where we will be together every day and can spend quality time together in two + more weeks around Christmas and New Years.

Are you just anticipating

Are you just anticipating not enough time for Karezza, or no ability to have any physical contact at all, because she'll be one place, and you'll be another?

If it's just not enough time for Karezza, then make with all the bonding behaviors you can during this time - touching, snuggling clothed, sleeping spooned together, holding hands, laughing.

If you're going to be physically separated the entire time, then I'd suggest meditating on the heart of Karezza, which is the love you feel for your partner.

I totally understand the feeling of anticipating missing your Karezza time. But even just once a week is 'enough' for us to stay very happy. I find that even 10 minutes of a close "meditative" hug in the morning keeps us feeling the love all day.

I envy you having 3 weeks of vacation all at once! We've only had a couple days at a time, here and there for the last 5 or 6 years.

Quizure

Hmmm...

So she still insisted on an orgasm, eh? [skepti] I was hoping she might be willing to skip it if you took things slow enough.

How are you feeling now? Sometimes the gifts of this approach are more apparent over the days following.

I wish I had a cure for the fact that the two of you aren't on the same page. It could easily account for the feelings of dissatisfaction.

Meanwhile, I think Quizure's advice is good. Look forward to that vacation. Smile

I realize this isn't very helpful... Sad

Karezza Separation

ALL of the advice I am getting is helpful - I am just trying to find my way in the dark here. My wife has agreed to read CPA but has only gotten through 12 pages. We have pretty busy lives right now and because of that we are unable to connect for a while. She will get back to the book eventually. We have discussed much of it but its better if she reads it herself rather than getting my filtered "Reader's Digest" version. She still has a lot of skepticism about the positive effects of bonding and Karezza: like greater marital harmony (too Utopian) and the "fact" that she can still be sexually fulfilled w/out the *O* . . . :?

On a different note, I am feeling OK about the benefits of Karezza and I do not feel sexually frustrated (YET) from foregoing my ejaculation and orgasm. I do feel that arousal is very easy (too easy?) and my sexual anticipation is heightened by not having an orgasm. I'm sure that over time, these things with smooth out but right now they are on-going issues for me. The thought of not having Karezza (or even the bonding aspects of Karezza) for 10 days is difficult [schock] - I have to just take each day one day at a time and I can get through it.

I have a daily regimen of meditation and it does help - although I have not specifically meditated about the love I feel for my wife, I am doing heart-opening and loving kindness meditations. These are good suggestions and I know that slowing down and seeking some calming and relaxation do benefit me. The trouble is that while I can stay in the "moment" while meditating for 20 minutes, once I get out into the "rat race" world, all that calming stuff fades in my rearview mirror as I prepare to jump into the fray. Such is life in the 21st century.

The 3 week vacation is a first for me too. I have carefully planned to take days on either side of the week between Xmas and New Years when things are at a much slower pace. Plus smart phones make it easier to keep abreast of the stuff I need to follow so that while I am in "vacation" mode, I'm still working "part-time." Huxley said "Technological progress has merely provided us with a more efficient means for going backwards."

Thanx again for your input... it is much appreciated as I continue to stub my toe in the dark. [blinzel]

You're doing fine

Your wife will have to figure it out for herself. Believe me, I'm just as strong-willed as she is, and it took me years. Hopefully she will have a shorter learning curve than I did. Wink

I know the next 10 days seems like the Sahara, but if you can find which tools ease your mind/cravings the most, you will have learned something valuable. Meditation is great, but exercise also gets rave reviews. More ideas here: http://yourbrainonporn.com/solo-tools Some are kind of fun to play with, so experiment if you have time.

Bodie

You say, "HELP! Am I losing it or just so green and inexperienced I am putting too much pressure on myself?

Answer, your putting WAY too much pressure on yourself.

Step back, have a look at the big picture. If I remember right you are in your late 50's early 60's, that's how many years of conventional sex? Quite a few. A radical change is lovemaking is not going to happen overnight, in a few weeks, or months. Not to mention karezza is not about performance, and you are coming at it from a very performance based perspective, trying to get it "right". There is no "right", this is a real organic learning process between oneself and one's partner. There is your learning process, hers, and the combination of you both. It will take time. You're doing great. Think about it: Do have any idea how many couples your age are practically living a sexless marriage? A whole lot. That's clearly not you, thank your lucky stars. Do you have any idea how many men your age are so stuck in there ways that they would never consider a change like this, especially in the sexual department? You are open to growth and keeping your relationship alive. I think you're doing way more than fine. I just think you're sweating it too much. Trying to do it "right" is counter productive. In some ways karezza is a very feminine flow. Trying hard to do it right and get on top of it is a particularly masculine approach. Try letting some of those masculine ways ease up some. Also, watch out for that masculine neediness, its a sneaky one.

You know, my wife kept merrily orgasming for years after I stopped. It was still way better than when we both were doing it. I was pretty darn happy not orgasming myself, and let her take all the time she wanted. I think it took me a good six months just to get the hang of not going over the edge, knowing how to ride the energy and feel the "flow" so to speak.

Personally I would just concentrate on mastering your own sexual energy flow, both in and out of the bedroom. That ought to keep you plenty busy. Learning how to really live "beyond orgasm" takes time to get used to. You're on the path, this is a great beginning, ease up on yourself.

Still Stubbing My Toe in the Dark

My wife and I had a change of schedules and we shared a very late night together unexpectedly. I was already asleep when she got home and we snuggled in bed giving each other back rubs for half and hour before we decided to move on to karezza intercourse. I was semi alert but I think my concentration was not fully engaged and she was pretty hungry (too hot). I only lasted 10-15 minutes before I lost control and accidently ejaculated. We continued to stay sexually connected for another 15 minutes or so and then snuggled for another 20-30 minutes before we disengaged. I asked her if she needed her orgasm and she said yes so I accommodated her. Although I was EXHAUSTED, I had a very fitfull sleep and now at work - I need a NAP as my energy level is LOW.

I have stubbed my toe in the dark again and I am getting discouraged by how we are progressing (or not really progressing) with karezza. I know I need to slow things down and that this is more about relaxing into it than TRYING but I can't seem to adequately communicate this to my wife. Plus, I know I should have settled for just snuggling since I was already so tired and let the intercourse wait until I was better able to focus (seems like Monday-morning quarterbacking at this point) but things got carried away. Our crazy schedules this week and next, plus the unexpected chance to enjoy intercourse sort of clouded my judgment. I believe you when you say it will get easier and to not give up but I have to admit that right now I am discouraged.

Any words of wisdom you care to share?

Relax

Karezza is not about perfection. And everyone orgasms once in a blue moon despite best intentions. Enjoy...and notice the shift.

We always learned the most from our slips. No reason it shouldn't be the same for you. Next time, you'll choose the snuggle.

Why do you ask her if she wants an orgasm? Why not wait and see if she asks you?

For us it's been much more

For us it's been much more about focusing on slowing down and being in the moment more than it is about avoiding orgasm. Not having an orgasm is the by-product, not the goal. We've been doing this 18 months or so, and we're not orgasm 'free'. And it doesn't bother us that we're not. Sometimes, it comes out of the blue, and other times, we are surprised at what simple little thing triggered one. It takes time to become more sensitive - not unlike what the guys here have found when they stop the PMO madness and give up the death-grip on their willies. We're retraining our brains, as well as our bodies to feel the more subtle and delicious sensations that Karezza delivers.

I would say it was at least 6 months before we had really found our groove. We went from having sex just twice a month, to everyday for awhile, and then every other day. This gave us lots more opportunities for 'learning experiences'. And the orgasm frequency actually went up, compared to the sex-2-times a month that was usual for us.

It sounds like you're both busy enough that you don't have a lot of time for good quiet 'connecting' time - sex or no sex, and that makes Karezza a little harder, as you are left feeling touch deprived, and a little 'hungry' for sex. I'm not sure when I started setting the alarm early, but I make sure we have 15 minutes to 1/2 hour of semi-awake time to snuggle naked every day. It's really easy to feel needy and 'hot', as you say, when you're feeling lonely or touch-starved.

Quizure

Bodie

One of the things about a karezza type approach to love making is that it a lot about the removal of performance that commonly dominates conventional sex. For some reason, Bodie, you keep on trying to apply that performance perspective to non-orgasmic sex. I'll say it again, shifting gear to bonding style love making TAKES TIME! I agree with Quizure's statement about six months to find your groove. The things you attribute to slip ups and toe stubbing is really just the learning process. You're bound to do these things, its about discovering yourself in a new way. Do you have any idea how many times I slipped over the edge when I was just beginning?

When you fall of the horse, dont take one breath to bemoan it, just get up, dust yourself off and climb right back in the saddle.

*snorts*

Well...there's *some* scant evidence of a mystery with similar symbols among diverse shamanic traditions. But it's pretty fuzzy. And as far as I know (based on a chat with a friend in Australia who is well acquainted with an Aborigine sage) the Aborigines do not practice any form of sexual continence. But here's a little passage on the subject that quotes another book:

One of the most intriguing aspects of the inner fire, or rainbow serpent,
practices is the possibility that they stem from a pre-Tibetan and
Siberian shamanic tradition more than 40,000 years old. Wherever that tradition
originated, traces of it can be found in Australia as well as Asia and
the Americas.

Knowledge of the Rainbow Serpent fire is found in pieces within
the tradition of Kundalini Yoga, in the Tibetan development of the
Rainbow Body, within Taoism as the immortal body, and among
the Sioux and other native peoples as the Spirits of the Rainbow
World. The Australian aboriginals refer openly to the Rainbow
Serpent as the primordial life energy and many of their ancient rock
paintings represent the energy.

Maybe they ran themselves

Maybe they ran themselves out of existence. Still it seems there would be more documentary evidence of them by others that encountered them and defectors. Even if it was paradise, the grass is greener "o"ver yonder. Maybe it goes back to the garden of eden, true or otherwise. As a side point, is there anyone you know of who has tried karezza for a while and gone back to peak orgasmic sex?

Hotspring honors both.

Hotspring honors both.

Anyone couple wanting to conceive a child will need to honor the orgasm, both for the obvious reason, and because sperm quality goes down with both too-frequent and too-infrequent ejaculations. As I recall reading, a spacing of three days between ejaculations is the best for high-quality sperm. Obviously, the woman doesn't 'need' to orgasm, though. The scientists can't even figure out why women can anyway. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/09/why_do_women_have_orgasms.php

The one thing I want to make clear is that avoiding orgasm is only one part of a number of things that we do differently than we did last year. Maybe avoiding orgasm made all the other changes easier, or the other changes made avoiding orgasm easier. I can't tell, because I didn't do a scientific study controlling all the variables.

Quizure

All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

The rainbow serpent or

The rainbow serpent or intertwined serpent is a universal symbol that relates to the evolution of our DNA. Jeremy Narby's book "The Cosmic Serpent" is an amazing exploration of the universality of the snake symbology. It turns out that in cultures in Siberia (where the word "shaman" comes from), the image of snakes and reverence for this imagery crops up within the shamanic and spiritual worldview in cultures where they do not even have snakes in their habitat at all. Pretty universal!

I think that the Kundalini energy is nothing other than our basic life-force. It is not just a technique. I think that it is involved in Karezza lovemaking, only it is opened to more gently. This is an energetic movement of the force of the spark of our spirit as it moves through matter. The Kundalini snake rises from the base of the sacrum up to the third eye, then out of our body back towards the base, in a torus geometric shape. Not surprisingly, this is also how we are morphogenetically formed as embryos - the primitive streak and notochord form from the base to the head, not the head to the base. This force is our self-regulatory force, and gives vital nourishment to the whole biology. It is basically the generative force (earth mother force) moving towards the trancendent (father sky force). Another way to say it is that it is the movement from our origins in solid matter to our journey into more diffuse and subtle states of consciousness, which is a natural movement in life as our body breaks down and disintegrates. It makes sense that the Taoist sages who tapped into this thought that they could become immortal by circulating and retaining, rather than discharging, this vital force - which is the force originating during each person's conception and which is ignited when spirit comes into matter through fertilization.

Hey Bodie

Lots of good advice from Marnia, Quizure, and Darryl. My wife and I have been practicing what I would call “male based” Karrezza for going on four years now. Although I no longer have orgasms my lovely wife is more orgasmic than she has ever been in her life. I am absolutely sold on the benefits of non-orgasmic lovemaking and in avoiding the extreme dopamine cycling induced by orgasm I am more balanced, my overall outlook and demeanor is improved, and I never lose my hunger and desire to connect with my partner. My wife is very aware of the benefits and wholeheartedly agrees this is the best thing we have ever done as a couple and we currently enjoy an extraordinary intimate connection.

Initially in our journey I encouraged her to abstain as well but she does not seem to experience negative effects from orgasm and can literally have multiple orgasms until she is just too tired to continue – with seemingly no negative fallout. After some time I realized this is an intensely individualistic journey and she was going to have to come to this on her own terms and in her own time. After four years I have seen no signs of her slowing down at all and I jokingly refer to her as the “Energizer Bunny” – you know, just keeps on going and going. Although I remain motivated to get her on board with this at the end of the day it does not really matter because we are in a much better place now than before we started this journey.

What I have found is that in choosing to connect in this way with my lovely wife it changed the way in which I was received by her – and we both became less orgasm-centric and much more focused on enjoying the moment and truly being present. We do regularly engage in intercourse that does not lead to an orgasm for her (particularly fond of slow drawn out rear entry while spooning) and totally enjoy sharing the delicious ebb and flow of bio-electric energy between us. Because I no longer deplete myself there are many more opportunities to connect and my lovely wife is taking advantage of my increased availability and we are having way more sex now in our late 40’s than we ever did in our 20’s. And the bonding and intimacy continue to grow even after all this time. You know you have it right when the younger folks tell you to “get a room” because we are so affectionate we literally cannot keep our hands off each other. When you connect on this level it is hard to stay mad at your partner and this has led to much more harmonious relations on a day to day basis. You attack obstacles and life challenges together because this puts you both on the same team.

You need to realize this is a huge fundamental change from the fertilization driven urges we are genetically programmed with toward taking conscious control of your sexuality and how you choose to connect with a partner. It took me some years to understand what was taking place inside my own body and come to a place where I understood the value in managing my sexual energy. Think evolution not revolution and enjoy every step forward as well as the steps back – because you always learn from this as well. The benefits of Karezza cannot be overstated and definitely worth the investment in time, effort, and energy. Great wealth of knowledge and experience on Marnia and Gary’s site here to keep you motivated and on track as well as you journey toward increased “marital harmony”.
Best Regards,
Virgil

Update - 2 weeks of KAREZZA

My wife and I are finishing week 2 of a vacation and have been enjoying KAREZZA without the stresses of "normal" everyday life and it has made a HUGE difference. We are more in tune -harmonious - and have been enjoying each other's company - both in and out of bed. Plus we have avoided orgasms (a slip still happens but without problems). Just thought I'd send a short update. Still have a week of vacation to go so more later...

You two are going

to be writing the Definitive Text on the subject before long. :)

I'm really happy to hear things are going well. It's a weird concept, but it truly does improve harmony...even with the occasional slip.

Patience

After a year of meditating on this topic of Karezza and not going to extremes, much of it for me boils down to patience. Love can come in many different forms many of which can be difficult to recognize, but one may find that all forms of love are patient. A couple teaching each other to become more patient seems to strengthen each other's overall wellbeing.

How do you differentiate

How do you differentiate patient from relaxed? To the extent that patience is somewhere opposite anxiety this could be a good approach to help keep each other focused on those outside of them or at least mindful that others aren't always themselves.

Melty Trumps Big O

So after a three week vacation and regular karezza my wife has admitted that she (who has been very reluctant to forgo her orgasm) likes slow, non-goal oriented PVI over the fast, hot and heavy sex of before. She even admits that the melty feeling after a long relaxing karezza session is WONDERFUL. So good, in fact, that she does not miss her orgasm (although she still likes the occasional clitoral-based orgasm). The biggest thing though, is the CLOSENESS and INTiMACY we have for each other. [kiss] OK - we were joined at the hip for three weeks and that had a lot to do with it as well, but the karezza had a major impact on our overall feelings of closeness and our ability to communicate openly and honestly. Now, we are back to reality and our busy schedules and lives but the respite of karezza is (I think/hope) part of our sex lives at this point.

We still have the odd slip where I ejaculate but less and less as time goes on. Plus we are snuggling more often and hug and kiss each other more than ever before. I think there is a lot of positive energy coming out of karezza - but then, I'm still trying to incorporate this into out regular lives (vacation is not "normal").

So thanks, everybody, who coached me and encouraged me along the way - you were all SO right! Its not about perfection - its about trying something new and learning how to CONNECT on a different level. [tanz] So far so good! I'll keep you posted.

Bodie, its a great to hear

Bodie, its a great to hear you're progress and success. Way to go! Sounds like you are both getting the feel of it. It just takes a bit of time to find your groove. May you still be making love with your lovely wife when your 90!