"How Long Does This Take, Anyway?"

Marnia's picture
Submitted by Marnia on
Printer-friendly version

lovers kissing near a clockRecently a reader, who had been trying the Peace system for about six weeks, wrote to say that despite his continence during sex, he wasn't feeling ecstasy with his partner, and was feeling some resentment. He was seeking advice.

As my husband was out of town, and I had little to offer from a man's perspective, I decided to canvass other men's experience via the Peace chatroom (precursor to the Forum). My question was, "How long after you began making love without ejaculation did you experience a ‘non-ejaculatory orgasm’?" Here's what they had to say:

I would have to say that I started experiencing them occasionally after about two months. They were right on the edge of ejaculation to start with, so potentially dangerous territory for someone doing these practices. After a while though, it became much easier to relax into them without fear of going over the edge. loversI would have to say that they were an added bonus though - I was already quite satisfied with my non-ejaculatory sex. The overall sense of well-being was like a "big picture" preference over the very short ecstasy of ejaculation. I also like walking away from the bedroom feeling energized and empowered, not feeling like I need to roll over and sleep some more to recover my energy.

Everybody and their experiences are so unique. The only thing I can say for sure is that I didn't experience anything different until Many Months after starting lovemaking with continence.

In my personal experience, it was more than a year in an ongoing relationship before I discovered, without looking for it I might add, non-ejaculatory orgasms. Continence was not my highest priority either, only the prolongation of pleasure.

(Notice that it took him longer this way.)

Another man pointed out that I had asked the wrong question, and so he highlighted the key element: giving.

givingIt seems like some of the ideas are getting blurred in the dialog.

I really like the terms "peak orgasm" and "valley orgasm" because they make the underlying energy issues clearer than other phrases do.

I've experienced non-ejaculatory peak orgasms before. As near as I can tell, the hormonal cycles after this are very similar to the hormonal cycles after an ejaculatory orgasm.

If this is the case, then the critical factor isn't whether somebody ejaculated, it is whether it was a peak or valley orgasm.

Another critical factor is whether the person's focus is on what they are getting or on what they are giving.

As near as I can tell, the practices described in the book Peace Between the Sheets depend on constantly avoiding peak orgasms, and constantly focusing on an unconditional giving dynamic. As soon as you have a peak orgasm or start focusing on getting, you will loose your balance and life will become more problematic.

Even if somebody is focusing on valley orgasms, if they are focusing on getting, rather than giving, valley orgasms, then it still won't bring them the happiness and well-being they are seeking. This is because they will still be entangled on the old programming and old hormone cycles. To escape these traps requires focusing on both unconditionally deeply giving and on avoiding peak orgasms.

So it seems to me to talk about non-ejaculatory sex is a red herring that can easily confuse the issues because it obscures whether they are having valley or peak orgasms, and obscures whether their intent is on getting or giving.

I think this is why all the reading on tantric sex never made sense to me - they were confusing these issues and I could sense the confusion, but didn't understand it then.

So now it seems very simple - find a path that leads to staying in a giving perspective while you share sexual energy in a very relaxed way. To oversimplify this, avoid having peak orgasms while focusing on unconditionally deeply giving in a way the leads to valley orgasms for the other person.

The tricky part is that usually the simplest things are the hardest to accomplish :)

I think the hardest part is to learn to stay in the giving mode. The more I look, the more I'm amazed at how many getting dynamics are masquerading as some kind of giving, and this is confusing a lot of people. It is real easy to construct a maze of delusions, rationalizations, and illusions to maintain the posture of giving while the underlying dynamic is actually on getting. It is real hard to unravel all this, let go of your self interest, and make a habit of giving.

When people have been working with the practices in Peace Between the Sheets, likely a lot of the failures had to do with the fact that they weren't consistently unconditionally deeply giving towards the other person even though they thought they were.

Our culture is so focused on getting that it takes a deep commitment to a practice of giving to step out of the getting dynamics, and even then, if you aren't fully honest with yourself, the getting dynamics will suck you back in.

This is why I get concerned when I hear talk about avoiding ejaculation instead of talk about focusing on unconditionally deeply giving, avoiding peak orgasms, and self honesty.

Finally, someone shared this text from an Osho collection:

"HOW OFTEN SHOULD ONE INDULGE IN SEX IN ORDER TO HELP AND NOT TO HINDER THE MEDITATION PROCESS?"

OshoThe question arises because we go on misunderstanding. Your sex act and the tantric sex act are basically different. Your sex act is to relieve; it is just like sneezing out a good sneeze. The energy is thrown out and you are unburdened. It is destructive, it is not creative. It is good -- therapeutic. It helps you to be relaxed, but nothing more.

The tantric sex act is basically, diametrically opposite and different. It is not to relieve, it is not to throw energy out. It is to remain in the act without ejaculation, without throwing energy out; to remain in the act merged -- just at the beginning part of the act, not the end part. This changes the quality; the complete quality is different then.

Try to understand two things. There are two types of climaxes, two types of orgasm. One type of orgasm is known. You reach to a peak of excitement, then you cannot go further: the end has come. The excitement reaches to a point where it becomes non-voluntary. The energy jumps into you and goes out. You are relieved of it, unburdened. The load is thrown; you can relax and sleep.

You are using it like a tranquilizer. It is a natural tranquilizer: a good sleep will follow -- if your mind is not burdened by religion. Otherwise even the tranquilizer is destroyed. If your mind is not burdened by religion, only then can sex be a tranquilizing thing. If you feel guilt, even your sleep will be disturbed. You will feel depression, you will start condemning yourself and you will begin to take oaths that now you won't indulge anymore. Then your sleep will become a nightmare afterwards. If you are a natural being not too much burdened by religion and morality, only then can sex be used as a tranquilizer.

This is one type of orgasm -- coming to the peak of excitement. Tantra is centered on another type of orgasm. If we call the first kind a peak orgasm, you can call the tantric orgasm a valley orgasm. In it you are not coming to the peak of excitement, but to the very deepest valley of relaxation. Excitement has to be used for both in the beginning. That is why I say that in the beginning both are the same, but the ends are totally different.

Excitement has to be used for both: either you are going toward the peak of excitement or to the valley of relaxation. For the first, excitement has to be intense -- more and more intense. You have to grow in it; you have to help it to grow towards the peak. In the second, excitement is just a beginning. And once the man has entered, both lover and beloved can relax. No movement is needed. They can relax in a loving embrace. When the man feels or the woman feels that the erection is going to be lost, only then is a little movement and excitement required. But then again relax. You can prolong this deep embrace for hours with no ejaculation, and then both can fall into deep sleep together. This -- THIS -- is a valley orgasm. Both are relaxed, and they meet as two relaxed beings.

In the ordinary sexual orgasm you meet as two excited beings -- tense, full of excitement, trying to unburden yourselves. The ordinary sexual orgasm looks like madness; the tantric orgasm is a deep, relaxing meditation. Then there is no question of how often one should indulge. You can indulge as much as you like because no energy is lost. Rather, energy is gained.

lovers revitalizingYou may not be aware of it, but this is a fact of biology, of bio-energy, that man and woman are opposite forces. Negative-positive, yin-yang, or whatsoever you call them, they are challenging to each other. And when they both meet in a deep relaxation, they revitalize each other. They both revitalize each other, they both become generators, they both feel livelier, they both become radiant with new energy, and nothing is lost. Just by meeting with the opposite pole energy is renewed.

The tantric love act can be done as much as you like. The ordinary sex act cannot be done as much as you like because you are losing energy in it, and your body will have to wait to regain it. And when you regain it, you will only lose it again. This looks absurd. The whole life is spent in gaining and losing, regaining and losing: it is just like an obsession.

The second thing to be remembered: you may or may not have observed that when you look at animals you can never see them enjoying sex. In intercourse, they are not enjoying themselves. Look at baboons, monkeys, dogs or any kind of animals. In their sex act you cannot see that they are feeling blissful or enjoying it -- you cannot! It seems to be just a mechanical act, a natural force pushing them towards it. If you have seen monkeys in intercourse, after the intercourse they will separate. Look at their faces: there is no ecstasy in them, it is as if nothing has happened. When the energy forces itself, when the energy is too much, they throw it.

The ordinary sex act is just like this, but moralists have been saying quite the contrary. They say, "Do not indulge, do not `enjoy'." They say, "This is as animals do." This is wrong! Animals never enjoy; only man can enjoy. And the deeper you can enjoy, the higher is the kind of humanity that is born. And if your sex act can become meditative, ecstatic, the highest is touched. But remember tantra: it is a valley orgasm, it is not a peak experience. It is a valley experience!

In the West, Abraham Maslow has made this term "peak experience" very famous. You go into excitement towards the peak, and then you fall. That is why, after every sex act, you feel a fall. And it is natural: you are falling from a peak. You will never feel that after a tantric sex experience. Then you are not falling. You cannot fall any further because you have been in the valley. Rather, you are rising.

When you come back after a tantric sex act, you have risen, not fallen. You feel filled with energy, more vital, more alive, radiant. And that ecstasy will last for hours, even for days. It depends on how deeply you were in it. If you move into it, sooner or later you will realize that ejaculation is wastage of energy. No need of it -- unless you need children. And with a tantric sex experience, you will feel a deep relaxation the whole day. One tantric sex experience, and even for days you will feel relaxed -- at ease, at home, non-violent, non-angry, non-depressed. And this type of person is never a danger to others. If he can, he will help others to be happy. If he cannot, at least he will not make anyone unhappy.

blissOnly tantra can create a new man, and this man who can know timelessness, egolessness and deep non-duality with existence will grow. A dimension has opened. It is not far away, the day is not very far away, when sex will simply disappear. When sex disappears without your knowledge, when suddenly one day, you realize that sex has disappeared completely and there is no lust, then BRAHMACHARYA is born. But this is arduous. It looks arduous because of too much false teaching, and you feel afraid of it also because of your mind's conditioning….